(ot) Torture -The Guantanamo Guidebook

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smutek
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(ot) Torture -The Guantanamo Guidebook

Post by smutek » Thu May 10, 2007 1:39 am

Contains mature subject matter, occasional use of strong language, and brief nudity. regardless, a relevant and thought provoking documentary for those who will take the time to watch it.

The UK Channel 4 program examines torture in the war on terror by exposing seven volunteers to methods reported to have been used by American interrogators on alleged terrorists at the Guantanamo Bay camp.

The Guantanamo Guidebook reconstructs the regime at the US's Cuban base. For 48 hours, seven volunteers are subjected to interrogation techniques known to be used in the camp, ranging from harassment and abuse to sensory deprivation – with shocking results.

For obvious reasons more dangerous techniques, such as water boarding, were not employed on the volunteers.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8271&hl=en

dango
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Post by dango » Thu May 10, 2007 7:05 am

thanks for posting. the shit going on down there is just wrong. how can we say we are promoting democracy while at the same time we are going against it by not allowing these people fair trials.

my dad just interviewed an attorney on his radio show whose clients are in gitmo, he has been going down there for the last 2 years. he said it has been the most depressing 2 years of his life.

for anyone interested we will have the show posted online in a day or two.

d~

dango
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Post by dango » Thu May 10, 2007 8:04 am

just watched it, that movie tipped me over the edge.

just made a couple bumper stickers for my car. going to get some cardboard and go freeway blogging to. people need to start caring.

Image


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hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Thu May 10, 2007 8:29 am

A university (princeton or stanford i think) did some tests on how quickly a "jail" makes people into sadistic bastards..

It takes 36 hours to turn a college student into a monster.
Thats about the same time to break somebody with mild abusive behaviour.

Be it in college or in real jails/camps, this pattern always surfaces.

End conclusion? Guatanamo was decaying within 2 days, when it should have seen a change of the guards..

How long does it take to go from "I have to guard these people" to "Lets throw these dudes naked in a pile and take some pictures to send home"?

4am
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Post by 4am » Thu May 10, 2007 8:32 am

reality is worse than fiction 8O
i can't remember who said this talking about the 2nd world war... but he was right

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu May 10, 2007 8:40 am

hoffman2k wrote:How long does it take to go from "I have to guard these people" to "Lets throw these dudes naked in a pile and take some pictures to send home"?
I dunno, how long did it take at Camp Ableton?
In my life
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At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
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hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Thu May 10, 2007 8:46 am

Tone Deft wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:How long does it take to go from "I have to guard these people" to "Lets throw these dudes naked in a pile and take some pictures to send home"?
I dunno, how long did it take at Camp Ableton?
Funny you should ask :lol:

I think it took about 12 hours to get Shawn Balm to abuse a passed out Noisetonepause.
And he thought he was actually abusing a stranger at the moment ;)

True story

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Thu May 10, 2007 8:55 am

Oh. Given the context of the thread...
The abuse I mentioned was nothing more then drunk people having some laughs.
Paws is still alive and healthy ;)
Wouldn't want to upset Shawn. He's Ableton's silent lurker.
Always keeping an eye on us.

dango
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Post by dango » Thu May 10, 2007 8:55 am

Tone Deft wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:How long does it take to go from "I have to guard these people" to "Lets throw these dudes naked in a pile and take some pictures to send home"?
I dunno, how long did it take at Camp Ableton?
:lol:

jeskola
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Post by jeskola » Thu May 10, 2007 9:45 am

Was reading an interesting article about that online game the sims.. The dark side of digital utopia. Check it out...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3334923.stm

Its amazing really how thin the line we have between the world we live in and the horrors that would surface with society taken away. I think although we all don't want to admit it each of has the potential to turn into a monster.

nuperspective
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Post by nuperspective » Thu May 10, 2007 10:55 am

its like that experiment in the 50's that showed most normal people are willing to electric shock a stranger to death as long as somebody in power told them it was okay. it not different in this case.

smutek
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Post by smutek » Sun May 13, 2007 2:42 pm

Thing is, even if you remove all of the moral issues, from a practical standpoint it's just not an effective means of collecting information. People will "confess" anything to make the pain stop.

And while the treatment at Guantanamo is certainly inhumane, it definitely pales in comparrison to what must be happening to the people we are sending to places like Syria, Egypt, and Khazakstan to be "questioned". I mean seriously, I guarantee you that after just a couple of hours of being "interviewed" in an Egyptian torture chamber you would hear Dick Cheney himself happily claiming to be an Al Queda terrorist.

It's all just so incredibly horrible.

Thing that cracks me up is that the United States just released that guy Luis Posada Carriles. He is wanted in Venezuela and Cuba for blowing up a Cuban airliner killing all 73 people onboard, including the entire Cuban fencing team. And it is not just hear-say, there is an extraordinay amount of evidence in the international community to support this, including recently declassified United States Government documents on the National Sercurity Archive website. He stood trial not on terroism charges, but on immigration charges, which is an outrage in itself. All charges against him were dropped last week.

Call's by Venezuela for his extradition to stand trial there were denied by the Bush administration. The explanation was that the would not extradite him to Venezuela to stand trial because "he would likely be tortured". I mean seriously, you have got to be kidding me?

The guy is a straight up terrorist. But it's different because he is OUR terrorist. Correction, he's an "anti castro militant" - nevermind all of the innocent people the guy has killed with his bombs.

Or how about the guys that blew up the "Rainbow Warrior" off the coast of New Zealand. On board were activists from the group Greenpeace who were protesting French nuclear testing in the Pacific. One member of Greenpeace died in the blast. Thirteen French agents were identified as being directly involved in the bombing but only two were ever convicted. Now it has been revealed that the commander of the unit, Louis-Pierre Dillais, is not only living freely in McLean, Virginia but is president of an arms manufacturer with several government contracts. Greenpeace has urged the Department of Homeland Security to deport Dillais because of his direct ties to an act of state terrorism. But the Bush administration has not moved on the request.

"The terrorists we tolerate". I mean come on? How can people not see this stuff? I suppose it would be nice if it actually got some real news coverage. Democracy my ass. man....

pilcrow
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Post by pilcrow » Sun May 13, 2007 7:40 pm

Anybody's heads being sawed off in that vid? If so, I'm not sure I could stomach it.

smutek
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Post by smutek » Sun May 13, 2007 9:01 pm

No, no heads being sawed off. I'm not sure that would be a wise thing for a documentary film maker to do to a volunteer.

Sawing of heads is not a tactic employed at guantanamo anyway....

Techniques shown in this film include cultural/religious/sexual humiliation, sensory deprivation, exposure to hot/cold, threats of rape, violence etc. The more physically dangerous techniques such as water boarding, use of dogs, mock executions, and so on are not employed out of concern to the safety of the volunteers.

The interesting thing about this film was that the majority of the volunteers were proponents of these "advanced interrogation" techniques at the start of the experiment but afterwards had a completely different viewpoint.

jamester
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Post by jamester » Sun May 13, 2007 9:55 pm

dango wrote:just watched it, that movie tipped me over the edge.

just made a couple bumper stickers for my car. going to get some cardboard and go freeway blogging to. people need to start caring.

Image
While I'm on your side, do realize that Habeas Corpus is a right for US citizens, so it has nothing to do with the Gitmo detainees. Therefore, it also has nothing to do with America's implementation of "democracy" towards its citizens.
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