A question about the summing engine.

xxxmorphicxxx · Post by **xxxmorphicxxx** » Tue May 22, 2007 12:51 am

I don't want this to turn into a heated debate, I just want a few opinions.

I have Nuendo 3, and Ableton Live 6. I occasionally get pops in my rendered tracks using Live. Also,I have heard that there might be a problem with the final mixdown of tracks using Live because of a possible inadequate summing engine.

I definately prefer to use Live to record my tracks, as the workflow is absolutely amazing compared to Nuendo, Sonar, and the others.

Again, I'm not trying to start a huge debate over the summing engine quality... I would like to know though... Would I be better off recording all my stuff with Ableton, then opening Nuendo, rewiring Ableton, and bouncing them all individually down to Nuendo where I would master with Waves and then finally render?

dpel · Post by **dpel** » Tue May 22, 2007 1:00 am

I'm curious as well,

For example, Is it possible Logic will sound more desirable
than live playing back or rendering the same audio?

unleash the flames!

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue May 22, 2007 1:04 am

I've done some pretty extensive tests you can search for here comparing the summing in SX3 and in Live 6. The results were that both DAWs gave bit for bit IDENTICAL mixdowns.

This is with no proprietary effects however (obviously Live and Logic have much different included effects), just raw audio files.

xxxmorphicxxx · Post by **xxxmorphicxxx** » Tue May 22, 2007 1:19 am

Thanks Tarekith. Exactly what I wanted to hear. Maybe it's time to sell my copy of Nuendo 3.

The only thing I like better about Nuendo is the ability to render directly to MP3. Too bad it's so unintuitive.

We Live users really have it good.

JACKAL & HYDE · Post by **JACKAL & HYDE** » Tue May 22, 2007 1:55 am

dpel wrote:I'm curious as well,

For example, Is it possible Logic will sound more desirable
than live playing back or rendering the same audio?

unleash the flames!

Nothing you'd hear imo. With summing (when using no plugs) all Daws sound the same. People argue about better/worse "summing" engines when using a ton of plugs (adds more math) but even if that was audible, the obvious workaround would be to get your mix perfect, render each seperate track down in any daw, then stereo render the final song down with 0 fx going. This method should (of course arguably) put all daws back on a level playing field summing wise.

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:28 am

Oldie but Goldie...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

...remember when Robert used to post???.... Good times....

dpel · Post by **dpel** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:12 am

Thanks Jackal

JACKAL & HYDE wrote:
dpel wrote:I'm curious as well,

For example, Is it possible Logic will sound more desirable
than live playing back or rendering the same audio?

unleash the flames!

Nothing you'd hear imo. With summing (when using no plugs) all Daws sound the same. People argue about better/worse "summing" engines when using a ton of plugs (adds more math) but even if that was audible, the obvious workaround would be to get your mix perfect, render each seperate track down in any daw, then stereo render the final song down with 0 fx going. This method should (of course arguably) put all daws back on a level playing field summing wise.

xxxmorphicxxx · Post by **xxxmorphicxxx** » Tue May 22, 2007 4:22 pm

3dot... wrote:Oldie but Goldie...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

...remember when Robert used to post???.... Good times....

Interesting read... especially Robert's posts, like you said. There were some people that kept insisting that the more tracks you have on Live, the worst it starts to sound. I frequently have sets that have 30-40 tracks and I've never experienced this...

I guess I'll never know for sure...

JACKAL & HYDE · Post by **JACKAL & HYDE** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:08 pm

xxxmorphicxxx wrote:
3dot... wrote:Oldie but Goldie...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

...remember when Robert used to post???.... Good times....
Interesting read... especially Robert's posts, like you said. There were some people that kept insisting that the more tracks you have on Live, the worst it starts to sound. I frequently have sets that have 30-40 tracks and I've never experienced this...

I guess I'll never know for sure...

Keep in mind that that thread is almost 4 years old and their talking about Live 3/4. I think the engine has come a little further since 3 & 4. Regardless of converters.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:15 pm

i don't believe the audio engine is any different now from version 3 or 4.

it's always been 32bit floating point afaik.

.lm.