OT: electroacoustic composition: more thoughts...
OT: electroacoustic composition: more thoughts...
I posted here about a year ago to invite some discussion regarding this strange little corner of the avant-garde music making world and, as all good Ableton threads do, it descended into arguments and idiotic comments...but anyway...
Since then, I've been hard at work doing a masters degree covering all aspects of music technology - including EAM - and my thoughts on the subject have changed somewhat. Previously, I was trying to discover whether this kind of largely academic music was really more concept than content, and although the 'process' involved in creating these pieces was often intriguing and stimulating, the results were sometimes..well...rubbish.
Now I still lean towards thinking that there's some of it that's just unlistenable crap designed to satisfy the increasing need to be as weird as possible for the sake of it - but I've found some truly astonishing stuff too...namely, Ryoji Ikeda, Carston Nicolai, Francisco Lopez, Chris Watson and Kim Cascone.
They have managed to make me listen to music in a fresh and vital way, and open the door for my own work too.
I now also think that it's high time that there was more interaction between the academic world and the commercial realm - there are guys I know making all sorts of very cool experimental plugins and controllers, and making very brave new music - but these often stay in project files and never see the light of day...whilst there's a whole world of new computer music artists who I'm sure would love to utilise/listen to them.
So - any thoughts? Any of you guys stray into these uncharted waters? Or do you think it's the Emperor's New Clothes for 21st century electronic music?
Oh - and you're all twats btw. Thought I'd get that in early doors...
Since then, I've been hard at work doing a masters degree covering all aspects of music technology - including EAM - and my thoughts on the subject have changed somewhat. Previously, I was trying to discover whether this kind of largely academic music was really more concept than content, and although the 'process' involved in creating these pieces was often intriguing and stimulating, the results were sometimes..well...rubbish.
Now I still lean towards thinking that there's some of it that's just unlistenable crap designed to satisfy the increasing need to be as weird as possible for the sake of it - but I've found some truly astonishing stuff too...namely, Ryoji Ikeda, Carston Nicolai, Francisco Lopez, Chris Watson and Kim Cascone.
They have managed to make me listen to music in a fresh and vital way, and open the door for my own work too.
I now also think that it's high time that there was more interaction between the academic world and the commercial realm - there are guys I know making all sorts of very cool experimental plugins and controllers, and making very brave new music - but these often stay in project files and never see the light of day...whilst there's a whole world of new computer music artists who I'm sure would love to utilise/listen to them.
So - any thoughts? Any of you guys stray into these uncharted waters? Or do you think it's the Emperor's New Clothes for 21st century electronic music?
Oh - and you're all twats btw. Thought I'd get that in early doors...
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There is some very listenable EAM. And there are a lot of stuff that bores me to tears.
Playing at an EAM outdoor festival tomorrow wednesday in Stockholm, Sweden BTW. Anyone in the vicinity is welcome to drop by! Långholmens Friluftsteater, 12 pm to 6 pm approx. PM me if you want more details.
(Sorry for the semi-hijack... )
Playing at an EAM outdoor festival tomorrow wednesday in Stockholm, Sweden BTW. Anyone in the vicinity is welcome to drop by! Långholmens Friluftsteater, 12 pm to 6 pm approx. PM me if you want more details.
(Sorry for the semi-hijack... )
I'm at work right now so I can't look up any of your examples but I've never even heard of the genre before. All genres have some kind of formula to build on, so what's the basic formula behind this genre? From what you described you make it sound like it's make songs that aren't musical in any form.
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EAM is "electronic art music". It commonly isn't conventionally musical in any form: no tonality, no rythm. (Even though there are lots of exceptions of course).
This article will give you some basics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroacoustic_music
This article will give you some basics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroacoustic_music
Actually it is not hard to make at all. It is just hard to come up with
something that is really meaningful. EAM is all about composing with form
and spectrum. The language of the notes, what we call music, is a separate
thing. It can be tonal or atonal or have no musical language at all. I would
say EAM is the cutting edge of future music development. That is where the
newest synthesis techniques are discovered, they then trickle down to more
mainstream forms of music.
something that is really meaningful. EAM is all about composing with form
and spectrum. The language of the notes, what we call music, is a separate
thing. It can be tonal or atonal or have no musical language at all. I would
say EAM is the cutting edge of future music development. That is where the
newest synthesis techniques are discovered, they then trickle down to more
mainstream forms of music.
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Of course you could mix some random sounds together and label the result "EAM". No one could contradict you. Much in the same way you could randomly dab some paint on a canvas and call it modern art. But in neither case would the result be very interesting.beats me wrote:I'll have to check out some of your examples because I'm not sure how you would judge or compare one song to another if there isn't really anything musical about it. Plus, given the basic definition it doesn't sound like it would be all that hard to make.
The label is hardly the point. What matters is the impact on the listener. As always with music.
Edit: EAM is usually "hard" listening. You need to train your ears (or rather untrain them) since much of what we associate with music isn't there. But so is much of modern instrumental art music ("modern classical music" - strange word).
hmmm, what is electro-acoustic music (EAM) for you? Kim Cascone? Well, do not know. EAM for me is serial music, musique concrète and John Cage and co. Stuff from IRCAM, Dartmouth, etc.
I often find that they buried themselves in the past. Often I hear stuff that was interesting in the 80ties but today does not make me go wow. IRCAM is still pretty much Pierre Boulez from the 80ties with technology from today. It is funny, we often sit in those concerts having to protect our ears (well, at least the few that did not already damage them anyways) -they always say that EAM freed the composer from the restrictions of the music instruments - well, but as music instrument manufacturers most of the ones I heard they are not very skill in doing that
To me, sometimes there is great stuff, but often ... well, sounds like music for the dead ones.
but that is just my 2€cents
best
I often find that they buried themselves in the past. Often I hear stuff that was interesting in the 80ties but today does not make me go wow. IRCAM is still pretty much Pierre Boulez from the 80ties with technology from today. It is funny, we often sit in those concerts having to protect our ears (well, at least the few that did not already damage them anyways) -they always say that EAM freed the composer from the restrictions of the music instruments - well, but as music instrument manufacturers most of the ones I heard they are not very skill in doing that
To me, sometimes there is great stuff, but often ... well, sounds like music for the dead ones.
but that is just my 2€cents
best
Well, that's possibly why you think it's music for dead people...all the artists you cite have paved the way, sure...but things have moved on.steff3 wrote:
EAM for me is serial music, musique concrète and John Cage and co. Stuff from IRCAM, Dartmouth, etc.
Here's a clip of one of my absolute faves, Ryoji Ikeda - a good example of his style & use of digital errors and hardware failure noises. Cool home-made vid too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S_2r0J7bHo
I'll try & stick up some more free examples of truly great EAM material soon.
EAM is part of my evolvement in Live etc.
A guy I like is Gregory Whitehead
http://mediamogul.seas.upenn.edu/pennso ... s_1987.mp3
Blending sound, talk, synthesis etc into a new composition.
Enjoy
// C
A guy I like is Gregory Whitehead
http://mediamogul.seas.upenn.edu/pennso ... s_1987.mp3
Blending sound, talk, synthesis etc into a new composition.
Enjoy
// C
Last edited by conny on Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PC Laptop Acer, XP Home SP2, build in crappy sound card.
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/
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I disagree.Michael-SW wrote:Much in the same way you could randomly dab some paint on a canvas and call it modern art. But in neither case would the result be very interesting.
I was writing an essay a few weeks ago, which involved a lot of late nights. I couldn't focus with 'music' with structure, much less vocals, on but I didn't like the silence either, so I took this ace little Max patch, a four voice FM synth/sequencer, which has a random setting which basically randomises the tone and the sequence every bar, set it to 30 BPM and hit play... I listened to that for hours and hours for several days. It would move between klangs and blonks, to minimal DX7-piano-ish melodies, to weird percussive patterns and noise... It made a very nice backdrop, and I don't really know what to call it, but it was definitely musical in some sense, and often very interesting noises and tunes, too... even though it was completely random, computer generated and without form.
...
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Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
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