bassline, melody, chords in key issues?

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tablist56
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bassline, melody, chords in key issues?

Post by tablist56 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:58 am

is there a specific formula which is followed to get your bassline in sync with your melody, chords etc?

i write my intro, drop in the bassline, then try and write a melody but never sure if its in the right key.

i usually have my back beat/off beat on a C3....if this is the case which note should my melody be based on?

i can usually figure it out by ear but sometimes not sure where things sound best.

is there a quick formula people use without having to learn hours of music theory?

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:17 am

by ear is best.

basically they should all use the same 7 notes. a key is a set of 7 notes, chords are subsets of a key, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 notes played at once. a scale is an arpeggiated chord or the notes in a scale played one at a time with their 'tonal center' based around a particular note.

The scale plug-in in Live is a great jam tool, it forces all incoming notes through it into the same scale, and scales can be thought of as the notes of a key. Drop the same scale plug in into all your tracks and they'll all be in key.

theory gets as deep as you want to go, it always helps but it's not always necessary. At times when I'm stuck or not creative I rely on it more, at other times I blow it all off.

hth, deep topic.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:39 am

yeah very .. very deep topic.

you can go outside of that and get all chromatic and still sound wicked too.

generally and very similarly to Tone, i figure out my scale and once i have chosen the lucky notes that will have the fortune of appearing on the track, i make the bassline

then work the melody after that.

rbmonosylabik
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Post by rbmonosylabik » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:41 am

Don't think so. Study your harmony kids.
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:46 am

rbmonosylabik wrote:Don't think so. Study your harmony kids.
Bring it. ;) Your point being?

There are chromatic runs and such but look at sheet music, 99.99% of the notes are within key, IOW they don't have # or flat written next to them so they fall within key.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

piZMo
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Post by piZMo » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:47 am

to help you understand how notes/keys work in relationship to each other to make your compositions more harmonious check out the cirlce of fifths...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

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Post by piZMo » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:55 am

rbmonosylabik wrote:Don't think so. Study your harmony kids.
"In music theory, the key identifies the tonic triad, the chord, major or minor, which represents the final point of rest for a piece, or the focal point of a section. Although the key of a piece may be named in the title (e.g. Symphony in C), or inferred from the key signature, the establishment of key is brought about via functional harmony, a sequence of chords leading to one or more cadences. A key may be major or minor; music in the Dorian, Phrygian, and so on are usually considered to be in a mode rather than a key. When a particular key is not being described in the English language, different key naming systems may be used.

Although many musicians confuse key with scale, a scale is an ordered set of notes typically used in a key, while the key is the center of gravity, established by particular chord progressions."

rbmonosylabik
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Post by rbmonosylabik » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:05 am

Tone Deft wrote:
rbmonosylabik wrote:Don't think so. Study your harmony kids.
Bring it. ;) Your point being?

There are chromatic runs and such but look at sheet music, 99.99% of the notes are within key, IOW they don't have # or flat written next to them so they fall within key.
That was meant as a reply to the original post :roll:

I'm sure we could discuss, flame war and fistfight on and on about this topic for pages and pages, but if he doesn't understand how harmony works, I don't think it would mean lots to him.

Best advice I can give: Learn, study, take some lessons.
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:13 am

rb - emphasis on the ;) in my post.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:19 am

So how exactly do you use the scale plug in?


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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:21 am

I'll put the same scale plug with the same setting on a bunch of midi tracks. Then I just mash on the keyboard not really paying attention to the keys I'm hitting. In the end every track has the identical set of notes. This has proved to be a LOT of fun when playing with other people, we can fake like we know all the theory, good results.

EDIT - I've also done sets with the same scale plug ins where the first track is just a notes over a few measures, then feed that note to other tracks, some with arpeggiators, others with chords, combos of whatever. The whole set is controlled by track 1. Then turn track 1 monitor to IN and play it with a keyboard and you get an ensemble at your fingertips. Cheesy but fun.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:29 am

Ok so let say i have a bassline and the first note is on C3

do I put the scale plug in on that with the C Major preset

then put another scale plug with C Major preset on another track with some random notes

it'll all sound good?
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:39 am

if you play it probably, if I play it, probably not. ;) The song will sound more cohernet and the notes won't clash nearly as much. The study of how every note in a key relates to the others is pretty deep.

When an orchestra plays a piece of music, 99% of the notes they're ALL playing fall within the key of the song, everyone is playing the same 7 notes, different octaves, but the same notes. The scale plug in one the same setting forces all the notes in your tracks to be in the same key.

C major is kind of boring, that's just all the white keys (literally), no good for trance. Try some of the more esoteric settings, I think I remember there being a harmonic minor preset that I really liked.

Look at sheet music, like the hymnal in church, there are the # and flats on the staff on the very left edge, those tell the organ player what key the piece is in, which notes are sharp and flat. 99% of the notes in the music do not have # or flats added next to them, they don't deviate from there. Every so often the sheet music has # and flats in the music, those are passing notes, are totally 'legal' and legit. The point is that almost all the notes in a song are chosen from the same 7 notes.

hth, it's an odd topic and I'm a self taught n00b.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:40 am

piZMo wrote: Although many musicians confuse key with scale, a scale is an ordered set of notes typically used in a key, while the key is the center of gravity, established by particular chord progressions."
+1

I LOVE MODES

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:51 am

Ok it's making more sense now - thanks TD

I was playing with some random notes and what not and I kind of hot the idea

don't clown when you hear all my synths sounding all perfect in scale (key) or whatever it's called these days ;)


thanks - I actually learnt soemthing new -
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