bassline, melody, chords in key issues?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Mesmer
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Location: Sunny San Juan, PR

Post by Mesmer » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:09 am

tablist56 wrote:ok ok ok folks....post starter here...
if my offbeat or bass starts on a c3, then i drop in a midi file melody (cheating, but just using this as an example), when i look at this midi file all the notes seem to be everywhere and there is not one group of dominant notes. therefore its hard to say that a particular riff belongs in such and such key.
Well... if the midi does sound musical, then most probably it positively exhibits some congruent relationships between the notes it contains: the intervals used should definitely point towards some "key" or maybe "chord type" family. The thing is, being midi and all, you are able to drop this sequence anywhere on the keyboard, efectively transposing the sequence - changing it's tone but maintaining their relations.
tablist56 wrote:having said that my bass is on c3, in these instances should my melody always start on a c aswell? ie c3, c4, c5 etc?
Your melody should start anywhere that sounds good; even off-key (supposedly censored for key family X) might be good if it lets the following sequence of notes bloom better. You start it where you like it ... when you like it, you'll find that 90% of the time it will be a note that is in-key (if you had the background to be able to tell). IMO there should be no dependence between melody start-off and base note. I think it's much more important to think where your song is going after that initial note.
tablist56 wrote:i seem to have this issue when trying to layer a chorded pad type sequence.
bassline sounds good, then when the pad starts it all falls apart.
I can only guess that the melody is already breaking the traditional harmony rules, with respect to the bass. Then you go on and try to layer chords with pads on the top and the brain goes Oh-oh, and then you get a sonic equivalent of the blue screen of death,

here are my two cents:
0.01 : maybe throw one of those files in here, so we can have a closer listen and try and tell you - fix this. Can't guarantee anything.

0.02 : 1 month of nice classes will take care of 75% of your uncertainties ... I am guessing the other 25% should take you the rest of your life.

good luck
-h
http://www.mesmero.net
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Hidden Driveways wrote:This doesn't answer your question at all, but I said it anyway simply for the joy of making a post.

tablist56
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 3:26 am

Post by tablist56 » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:44 am

mesmer:

thanks for all that info...

i think the issue may be related to the melody simply not matching the pad sequence. in key or not, some melodies just wont sit properly with certain sequences.

for now im just going to do it by ear, hopefully in the next few months ill be able to figure out where everything goes alot quicker.

it is a little hard thought because transposing up or down one semitone gives you only a tiny little difference so it can be so hard to tell. especially with pad type sequences.

back to the drawing board for now!


thanks

Mesmer
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:29 pm
Location: Sunny San Juan, PR

Post by Mesmer » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:39 am

I remember my first little casio ... or was it realistic? had a playing mode for the left hand that automatically built chords for you based on the one note you played in the lower register.
It took that and constructed some harmony on top of this root note.

I'm pretty sure those same bottom models started shipping with midi capabilites some years later.


Sooo... for $60? you could get an El Cheapo beginers keyboard and let IT show you how to build some harmony into the root notes that you want. You'd make sure it has that "chording" playing mode in the same switch as the turn-on, demo, rythms.

I'm not sure pursuing this is your best option; it might be one of the most fun, though.
-h[/i]
http://www.mesmero.net
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Hidden Driveways wrote:This doesn't answer your question at all, but I said it anyway simply for the joy of making a post.

ethios4
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

Post by ethios4 » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:17 am

hehe, what's that quote..."talking about music is like dancing about architecture"?

Try this : create a simple bassline that consists of just one pitch, say D.
Now create a pad that is just one note, start with D.
Now change the pad note around slowly and really listen and feel for how the relationship between the pad and the bassline changes when you change the note for the pad. Explore how every note feels different against the constant bassline. Explore how each changing note affects the one before it and after it.
Keep the pad constant and change the bassline's note around and feel how it changes the pad. Explore with your ears and feelings!

As you change the pad's note around, you will notice that some notes produce different feelings than others - some are more dissonant, some are more harmonious. Explore these relationships, and remember that the key to music is tension and release, tension and release. Explore a dissonant combination of notes followed by a harmonious combination, and back again. Expand this to the nth degree and you have a symphony...

These are the basic building blocks, IMO. Learn the notes to a minor scale and stick to them for a basic lesson in theory, Keep it simple...just explore the relationships when you juxtapose two different pitches in the same scale, and tkae note of which position in the scale they are at. You can then apply this knowledge to any key you are in...

tablist56
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 3:26 am

Post by tablist56 » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:56 am

ethios4 wrote:hehe, what's that quote..."talking about music is like dancing about architecture"?

Try this : create a simple bassline that consists of just one pitch, say D.
Now create a pad that is just one note, start with D.
Now change the pad note around slowly and really listen and feel for how the relationship between the pad and the bassline changes when you change the note for the pad. Explore how every note feels different against the constant bassline. Explore how each changing note affects the one before it and after it.
Keep the pad constant and change the bassline's note around and feel how it changes the pad. Explore with your ears and feelings!

As you change the pad's note around, you will notice that some notes produce different feelings than others - some are more dissonant, some are more harmonious. Explore these relationships, and remember that the key to music is tension and release, tension and release. Explore a dissonant combination of notes followed by a harmonious combination, and back again. Expand this to the nth degree and you have a symphony...

These are the basic building blocks, IMO. Learn the notes to a minor scale and stick to them for a basic lesson in theory, Keep it simple...just explore the relationships when you juxtapose two different pitches in the same scale, and tkae note of which position in the scale they are at. You can then apply this knowledge to any key you are in...



thanks!!!!


this would have to be the best thing said so far!!!!!!!!!!
a simpe bassline on D, simple pad on D, then feel the relationships around notes :) thanks for your post, it was very imformative :) lovin it...

glu
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 12:27 am

Post by glu » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:35 pm

Back in high school I used to take loads of acid alone at night, turn off all the lights, and lay there in the dark listening to imaginary music in my head. One thing I will never forget is vibration.

It's all about synchronized vibrations.
no prevailing genre of music:
http://alonetone.com/glu

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