Why do "Pros" clip the fu*k out of Live?

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:50 am

http://www.tcelectronic.com/Default.asp?Id=10702

3rd video

Why?

Also, that TC thingy looks sexy.

serotoninsteve · Post by **serotoninsteve** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:17 am

And the info view!

JACKAL & HYDE · Post by **JACKAL & HYDE** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:25 am

Because playback in the box it doesnt matter. Higher level means more bits and your still not near 0 db. (Or crackling/distorting anyway)

Page 148 of the Live manual ->

"Because of the enormous amount of headroom in Lives 32 bit floating point audio engine, Live's meters can be driven far "into the red" without causing the signals to clip. The only time that signals over 0 db will be problematic is when routing to or from physical inputs/outputs when recording."

So no one cares unless doing something critical thats being recorded in/out a sound card.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:45 am

Live's metering isn't true peak. Maybe 2 or 3 db under.

thelocalhost · Post by **thelocalhost** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:14 am

JACKAL & HYDE wrote:Because playback in the box it doesnt matter. Higher level means more bits and your still not near 0 db. (Or crackling/distorting anyway)

Page 148 of the Live manual ->

"Because of the enormous amount of headroom in Lives 32 bit floating point audio engine, Live's meters can be driven far "into the red" without causing the signals to clip. The only time that signals over 0 db will be problematic is when routing to or from physical inputs/outputs when recording."

So no one cares unless doing something critical thats being recorded in/out a sound card.

The master is special and it should never be in the red.

nowtime · Post by **nowtime** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:19 am

Great post. Essential points. Thanks all!

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:37 am

the master is calibrated for punter safety too. Cuts down on the tech support calls. I don't even pay attention to live's master meters. Always red. I only look at my dig-in tascam cd burner meters.

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:57 am

I don't fully understand 32 bit floating point, but according to what I know, what it does is allowing to store small numbers with lots of decimals or big numbers with few decimals. So, wouldn't driving the signal into red force the audio engine to reduce the accuracy of very low signals like reverb tails and such?

Not that it matters much in a product demo, but still found it a little odd, and it's not the 1st time I see someone doing it.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:05 am

Well, it's a calibration thing. On many digital meter products, the peak light will light a few db before true peak 0 db. It's a safety feature. Some gear like apogee allows one to set how many sample overs constitutes a peak light warning. Most mastering dudes won't sweat a couple samples getting over 0.

Just a guess but abe's may have set Live to red at 1 sample over -2db

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:37 am

1) lives master meter goes red at anything over 0.

2) i wouldn't put the master into the red if i were you. it will indeed clip.

-you can put the track faders into the red as much as you want, as long as the master has been pulled down so that you're not in the red on the master.

as far as what the manual says, it is correct, but going from the software out to speakers somewhere is indeed one of those times that you do not want to be in the red. At least on the master. As long as you are routing signal within the program, go nuts. But leaving the program and headed towards speakers or something else, do not go over 0.

this is all very easy to test for yourself. use a test tone plug in like the lovely free mda test tone.

use the sine and crank it up to zero. lives master will be at zero and green. Now turn up the track fader. Hmmmm, what happened to my sine wave? why are there overtones now? why is the master red? could it be clipping? y'think?

.lm.

queglay · Post by **queglay** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:38 am

a few people tested it actually. theres a thread round here but i cant find it. someone tested that you can push something 30db+ without distortion. so yeah, it doesn't matter as long as you aren't actually recording audio on a track or sending anything out to your soundcard analog out.

but inshort, you can clip the f&#% out of live almost as much as you want.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:41 am

of course you can, within the program. You have a bunch of util plug ins pushing the signal up and then a bunch bringing it back down and the signal will be fine. But if you don't bring it back down before you leave the program and go analog, you will have problems.

.lm.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:47 am

to explain the video, he may be doing something to the master with the tc box before it converts to analog. perhaps a limiter? just a guess.

.lm.

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:33 am

knotkranky wrote:Live's metering isn't true peak. Maybe 2 or 3 db under.

So that explains why my tracks usually need to be cranked up a bit at the pre-mastering stage.

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:53 am

leisuremuffin wrote:to explain the video, he may be doing something to the master with the tc box before it converts to analog. perhaps a limiter? just a guess.

.lm.

Yeah, actually the point of the interface is that it comes with DSP effects including a Limiter.