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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:04 pm
who shot jfk?...they told us at school that they would release the documents by now...

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:13 pm
by Meef Chaloin
dango wrote: so you are saying that maybe if something fishy did happen that day that those responsible should be let off the hook because 6 years has passes by? that is crazy talk.
no im saying that something fishy did happen and that they will get off the hook whatever happens. Who would you name? They'll have some fall guy for it if it comes to it, even if that person is actually guilty the majority of people will get off.

dango wrote:you may be willing to submit and conform to their agenda but i am not. i will keep talking about it and talking about it until the day comes when they pass a law that talking about it will get you locked up. then in jail i will be talking about it. oh wait, bush just passed that law on the 17th. oh well, carry on.
haha what makes you think i want to "submit & conform"? Seems to me that its people who concentrate on this that are submitting and conforming, there is a reason it was made so spectacular...people like you are actually falling hook line and sinker in to submission, you think it was the first thing that whoever was responsible ever did or have done since? while you're busy campaigning this they have forgotten the whole thing and probably done hundred of horrendous things since because everyone's so busy trying to see through the smoke & mirrors that they've forgotten that the people responsible are still at large, still very rich, are learning from their mistakes and carrying on under the shield of 911. Im not saying it should be forgotten, just put it in to perspective and open your eyes a bit wider, there's a lot worse things going on right now

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:16 pm
by Meef Chaloin
YILA wrote:who shot jfk?...they told us at school that they would release the documents by now...
haha exactly

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:19 pm
by jeskola
I do admit that some things don't add up in the whole situation. But 1) the amount of people that would need to be "in on the secret " to make it happen, and 2) the USA's continuing incopitence in internal and global affairs lead me to believe that BIG dubyaaa's not the culprit - after all that's what the conspiracies point at?

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:25 pm
by popslut
An encouraging sign is that this thread hasn't been deluged with "believers" pouring scorn on the idea that the official explanation isn't to be taken as unquestionable truth. This time last year the majority of people contributing would be attacking you for such heresy.

Btw Hambone - I don't smoke pot, yet I don't believe the official explanation of what happened that day. I believe the US government is somehow complicit in the murder of those 3000-odd people.

To attempt to write off anybody who doesn't follow the official line as deluded paranoid potheads is just weak and desperate.

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:06 pm
by jeskola
related in some sense but watched this tonight, and damn 8O i'm kind of scared. ... 1490749816

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:42 pm
by hambone1
popslut wrote:To attempt to write off anybody who doesn't follow the official line as deluded paranoid potheads is just weak and desperate.
And if you knew anything about statistics, you'd know that a positive correlation doesn't necessarily mean 'anybody'.

Re: OT: Professional Pilots and Aviators Question 9/11

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:52 pm
by Wishbone
way to go you're officially retarded. Isnt it amazing how the conspiracy theorists, and those that do not approach things like 9/11 logically are always liberals? What a fascinating coincidence. Its great how just because everyone doesn't know everything about airplanes, physics, and metalurgy automatically means that there was a conspiracy. people need to realize that if you are going to take such illogical positions, you need to PROVE them

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:21 pm
by fortycoats
jeskola wrote:the amount of people that would need to be "in on the secret " to make it happen
that all depends on the people

"Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served. [Utne]

According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."

The company lists as government clients "the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S Air force, and the Department of Justice," in projects that "often require state-of-the-art security solutions for classified or high-risk government sites."

The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday [September 11]. Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday [September 6], bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed. [NY Newsday]"

"My name is Scott Forbes and I still work
for Fiduciary Trust. In 2001 we occupied floors 90 and 94-97 of the South
Tower and lost 87 employees plus many contractors.

On the weekend of 9/8,9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2,
the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical
supply for approx 36hrs from floor 50 up. I am aware of this situation since
I work in IT and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that
all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brough back up
afterwards. The reason given by the WTC for the power down was that cabling
in the tower was being upgraded ... Of course without power there were no
security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers'
coming in and out of the tower. I was at home on the morning of 9/11 on the
shore of Jersey City, right opposite the Towers, and watching events unfold
I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the
weekend work ...

I have mailed this information to many people and bodies, including the 9/11
Commission but no-one seems to be taking and registering these facts. Whats
to hide? Can you help publicise them?"

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:28 pm
by fortycoats
Why would any middle east group attack the world's biggest military power?
The repercussions would not have been hard to predict

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:52 pm
fortycoats wrote:Why would any middle east group attack the world's biggest military power?
The repercussions would not have been hard to predict
you answered that one yourself...

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:58 pm
by Tone Deft
YILA wrote:
fortycoats wrote:Why would any middle east group attack the world's biggest military power?
The repercussions would not have been hard to predict
you answered that one yourself...
there was a cat and mouse game going on with the CIA and Bin Laden for decades ever since the US was fighting Russia in Afghanistan, the CIA hired Bin Laden's men to fight for them then left him hanging on a deal and the two groups have been at each other ever since. The embassy bombing in Africa, the attack on USS Cole are examples, that part's fact and not conspiracy.

maybe someone can chime in with more details.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:42 am
by Nod
YILA wrote:who shot jfk?...they told us at school that they would release the documents by now...
Well they did release some of them....about 3% are still under lock & key until the relevant parties have died. Take a look at:

Of course if they were to release the rest then there'd be a very good chance that, amongst others, George H.W. Bush would be in the dock for treason, conspiracy, gunrunning, organising terrorist action against another state and sedition inside of it. The very fact that long time Bush family friend and terrorist extraordinaire Allen Dulles was on the Warren Commission is a measure of just how uninterested they were in seeing justice done - that guy, along with Kissinger, makes Osama Bin Laden look like a fucking teddy bear. However people will unfortunately quite quickly wander off into nazis, aliens and Skull & Bones nonsense but just try and remember the unassailables:

a) Prescott Bush funded Nixon's political career against the Kennedy's.

b) Dulles & Poppy Bush were using the CIA as their own private terrorist army before Kennedy fired Dulles for the Bay of Pigs debacle. Poppy was mysteriously appointed Director with no apparent experience back in '75 - yet the interview conducted with him the day after the JFK shooting refers to him specifically as "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency".

c) Jack Ruby, or Rubenstein, worked privately for Nixon before wasting Oswald (and later said the conspiracy went all the way to the top) whilst The Dallas Schoolbook Depository was owned by one of Prescott Bush's oldest friends.

d) Some of the same men who were in Dallas on that day later turned up as Nixon's burglars during Watergate and were then employed again by Poppy Bush. Namely E.Howard Hunt who lost a court case against a magazine that asserted he was in Dallas and was one of the shooters.

e) When Kennedy's body left Dallas in a bronze casket wrapped in sheets with the remaining brain left in his skull all of the doctors had indicated a upper frontal entrance wound, massive exit wound to the rear and the lower entrance 'throat' wound.....

When it arrived in Bethesda in a body bag and cheap grey box they used to ship the grunts back from 'Nam in the remaining brain had been removed and the frontal entrance wounds mutilated to appear as exit wounds...

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:56 am
by smutek
Tone Deft wrote:maybe someone can chime in with more details.

The Adam Curtis documentary "The Power of Nightmares" is a good start if anyone cares to take the time to watch it.

Available at but probably on youtube as well.

Also, "The Great War for Civilization", by Robert Fisk is an excellent read if you want to get really pissed off about the recent history of the region.

Personally I'm not one to believe it was an inside job, as in planned and executed by elements of the US Government. It's not that I think they (they being Cheney and friends) are above doing such a thing, but more because it would simply be impossible. A concerted effort by the US Government to mount such an operation would require an enormous amount of human resources and the bottom line is that someone would have talked.

Even if we were to assume absolutely air tight compartmentalization (i.e.. each participant knows only enough to accomplish their given task, but not enough to see the entire picture) one still has to consider the fact that each operational element must have a manager, and each level of management will have more pieces to put together.

Lets say Cheney is running the show, he gives orders to John Bolton, Donald Rumsfeld and Scooter Libby, who all have the entire picture. This constitutes senior management. Each of those pass on orders to their respective managers, still a small group, at State, INS, Justice, DOD, NSC, FCC, FAA, NORAD, (etc. etc. etc. until you have a list of all of the departments that would be necessary to utilize) a small group of say 30 people which constitute middle management for the project. These 30 people do not have the entire picture, but they have enough to know that something is not right. Next you have either another tier of management or you have the actual people who are shutting down their computer screens at the right time, relieving guards from duty at the right time, relaxing immigration restrictions at the right time, calling off an ongoing investigation.... etc. etc. etc. etc.

See where I am going? Something would have leaked. Is it possible it could have happened without leaking, yes, just not probable in my opinion. For me that, along with the consequences of exposure (at any stage) rules out many of the theories I've read about.

What it does not rule out is the simple fact that something was not right, we are not being told the entire story, some things are being covered up, and everything about that is just not right.

So, I agree that something is wrong about what we've been told and not been told about 9/11 - but maybe it isn't what most of us think it is. Maybe all of this "conspiracy" stuff (I use quotes because I am not mocking) is a smoke screen of sorts.

One thing we do know about for sure is Iraq. What is the death toll there now? Over 3,000 now if you just want to count Americans to compare against 9/11. 3/4's of a million or so if we count total deaths?

Now there's the crime we should be focusing on. We know for sure we were lied to. Look up the death toll figures then read this again : Lied to. Lied to about many things. We know for sure it was/is about oil. We know the war is criminal and illegal. We know that hundreds of thousands of people are dead as a result.

Now, I am not saying to sweep 9/11 under the rug, but Iraq is happening everyday, and they really don't plan on leaving any time soon. Now, there are a lot of criminal things that take place on both sides of the aisle, but without a shadow of a doubt, Iraq is the one thing that most of us know for certain and agree that a hell of a lot of people in Washington (starting with Cheney and Bush) should be spending the rest of their lives in prison for.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:13 am
by dango
jeskola wrote:But 1) the amount of people that would need to be "in on the secret " to make it happen, a
not many due to " a highly-compartmentalized covert operation "

eventually we will have a 'deep throat'

and that picture of the pentagon on the 1st page of this thread is rubbish. 1 or two chunks a plane metal found a few hundred yards away from the attack area is not proof. the metal was not scorned with burns and what happened to the other 100 tons of airplane? where did the wings and tail go?

did you even bother reading any of the testimonies of the military officials and pilots that are giving statements about this?

i think deep down most people know they are being lied to about 9/11 but they really do not want to know what might be the truth. it scares them to think that this great nation could have a group of rogue elements in the higher branches. so they choose to go on the defensive. or maybe they do not care, maybe deep down they support the agenda. or they are just plain stupid.