OT (kind of): The Reason 4 Beta Impressions:

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:22 pm

I got a copy (From The Props) of the R4 Beta Last Night. After a quick, fiddly run thru, I am not too impressed.

Thor is like a Massive Combinator Patch with a different look. Not too crazy as their PR would have you believe. Sounds Nice. Not Great.

The Other Modules desperately need a improvements. There are none.

The Big Improvements are in the tracker. Color coding is nice. Multiple parameter lanes. Vector Editing. Navigation is wonky, though... but since I use Reason rewired to Ableton, that doesn't do me much good personally.

The best feature: The Upgrade Price. $150 USD. Cheaper than Live Sampler.

(One more example of why Sampler is a bit overpriced, IMO)

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:30 pm

Live's last update was 100$ and featured awesome improvements...
(racks... midi...freeze/flatten...etc...etc...)(!)
Hooray for ableton!... (I want my live/msp...)

gaspode · Post by **gaspode** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:51 pm

Sampler isn't *that* bad...

I mean you're trying to compare an upgrade price of Reason, to the full cost of entry of Sampler. Once you own sampler, you'll get upgrades to it as they improve Live. The entry price for Reason is a bit higher than the upgrade cost of Reason.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:21 pm

gaspode wrote:Sampler isn't *that* bad...

I mean you're trying to compare an upgrade price of Reason, to the full cost of entry of Sampler. Once you own sampler, you'll get upgrades to it as they improve Live. The entry price for Reason is a bit higher than the upgrade cost of Reason.

Concidering that the Upgrade price for Live is less than the cost of Sampler, I can still make my point. Sampler is too expensive for what is a small part of the program.

IF I get the Reason Upgrade, I am getting a new instrument included, along with the other very needed improvements (that admittedly don't do ME all that much good). For $150. Not that I need ANOTHER F***ing Synth.

Sampler should be no more than $75 (Half of the Upgrade Price).

In My Opinion.

Khazul · Post by **Khazul** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:17 pm

Aint you under NDA and therefore not supposed to be posting about this?

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:26 pm

if ((upgrade for reason- sampler)/upgrade for live) - (new reason instrument/operator)>100$, i might upgrade to reason 4.
errrr, hold on, i don't have reason 3.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:31 pm

Khazul wrote:Aint you under NDA and therefore not supposed to be posting about this?

nope. I can talk about whatever the fuck I want to.

rarr · Post by **rarr** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:49 pm

kabuki wrote:
Khazul wrote:Aint you under NDA and therefore not supposed to be posting about this?
nope. I can talk about whatever the fuck I want to.

im doing the beta testing also and im sure were not allowed

infact...

look what propellerheads say on the beta test main page

The forums will also be the main channel of communication between testers and developers, so please read the forums thoroughly during the testing. Please remember that you have agreed to the Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA).

This basically means two things:

You can't spread the beta software.
You are not allowed to discuss the beta testing with anyone that hasn't signed an NDA

whos a naughty boy (or girl) then?

BUT!! in your defense youve just talked about the product and not much about the testing of it, so most of the info youve mentioned could be from sources such as magazines previewing it like music tech

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:56 pm

rarr wrote:BUT!! in your defense youve just talked about the product and not much about the testing of it, so most of the info youve mentioned could be from sources such as magazines previewing it like music tech

BINGO!

And by NDA Standards, your discussing it on THIS forum with me (For all to read), you are "breaking the rules", whatever that means.

Simply, by discussing my impressions, but not the beta, bugs, or forum discussions, I am clear. And, if Reason gave us something really good, worthy of an NDA, I would be busy playing with it. As it is, I will be deleting the beta from my rig ASAP. I can't do the testing justice with the schedule I have now.

forge · Post by **forge** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:15 am

funny that's exactly what happened to me with Reason 3 - so much so that I sold it almost straight away - I felt by going more into the "standalone" approach, rather than acknowledging that most people use it with some other better software host they completely missed the point

for me who also had the NI komplete bundle and Waves with Live it just didnt offer me anything I couldnt do some other way better

in fact the ONLY thing in Reason I would have liked to use was the Maelstrom filters, but as they stubbornly refused audio in or full duplex rewire that made it way more hassle than it was worth - and the fact that someone else out there developed ReWuschell to do exactly that means it wasnt hard to do so there was no excuse, just stubbornness

BTW -does the beta still do that really irritating thing where it creates all those .txt files in my documents? it kept doing it even after I removed R3beta and I could never figure out how to get rid of it

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:38 am

Just judging by the new feature list I'm very disappointed at how little the Props have to show for the last four years of work. Thor looks nice and would have made a nice 3.5 upgrade 18 months ago but too much water has run under that bridge since then. Looks like 3.0 is the end of the road for me with Reason. A shame.

Kodama · Post by **Kodama** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:21 am

Well you only have to pay for sampler one time and it's a much more advanced instrument (grain trix/mod matrix) than operator, which I own as well.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:49 am

Why would you want to be involved with beta testing software you don't even like? Crazyness...

If you couldn't handle the terms and conditions and the schedule then why bother?

It is worth upgrading just for the new sequencer view. Reason is good software imho and I'm only using 2.5 pre combinator. It gives you a lot in one package and rewiring the audio from it is fine by me. Sure you could go out and buy several vsts, which provide more host to flexibility and sometimes less CPU usage but Reason gives you decent set of basic sounds (better than the EIC in Live in many cases, NNXT gives you more flexibility than Simpler, Redrum has better sounds built in than Impulse, plus you can use REX files in the loop player, and the 2 synths may not be up there with the Zebras and Korg Legacies etc in terms of variation or quality, but they are better than freeware and the synths bundled with most DAWS), the routing flexibility is interesting too but the sequencer in reason has always been a major weakness.

Although I prefer using Live with vsts, I still load up Reason occasionally to good effect. Too many fanboys with no objectivity knock Reason. You know there is life and good alternative software outside of Ableton Live if only some people would lose the tunnel vision.

forge · Post by **forge** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:59 am

leedsquietman wrote:Why would you want to be involved with beta testing software you don't even like? Crazyness...

If you couldn't handle the terms and conditions and the schedule then why bother?

It is worth upgrading just for the new sequencer view. Reason is good software imho and I'm only using 2.5 pre combinator. It gives you a lot in one package and rewiring the audio from it is fine by me. Sure you could go out and buy several vsts, which provide more host to flexibility and sometimes less CPU usage but Reason gives you decent set of basic sounds (better than the EIC in Live in many cases, NNXT gives you more flexibility than Simpler, Redrum has better sounds built in than Impulse, plus you can use REX files in the loop player, and the 2 synths may not be up there with the Zebras and Korg Legacies etc in terms of variation or quality, but they are better than freeware and the synths bundled with most DAWS), the routing flexibility is interesting too but the sequencer in reason has always been a major weakness.

Although I prefer using Live with vsts, I still load up Reason occasionally to good effect. Too many fanboys with no objectivity knock Reason. You know there is life and good alternative software outside of Ableton Live if only some people would lose the tunnel vision.

I cut my teeth on reason but ultimately "evolved" beyond it - IMO it is the nature of these things that they should progress and move with the times, as should the people using them - and part of that involves acknowledging that Reason will never be able to offer everything so there will always be a need to use other software or plug-ins

by forther extending the standalone approach they indicated they they were completely ignoring this fact and choosing to remain in the entry level beginner end of things, so of course they are going to be left behind by people who progress and move on

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:36 am

I agree with some of what you're saying and agree that more progress could have been made but I don't view Reason as 'entry level', it's more difficult a concept to grasp than Live and for me, the immediateness of programs like Fruity Loops and other cheap loop programs such as Sequel by Steinberg are the 'entry level'. Although they have audio, it's just tacked onto a program that was basically a step sequencer and beats slicer. (fair play, some of the synths and the vst capability of the mid-upper priced versions have improved FL big time)

There are things you can do in Reason with it;s routings and devices that are very difficult to reproduce in Live and vice versa.

It seems that Props are being overly stubborn on audio, but it also gives their product an identity. They tack on audio like Fruity Loops, they'll just be compared to Fruity Loops and Acid. People forget the strengths in that it has a large group of good sounds in the sound bank and orkester bank(usable if not top of the line), sample player, a loop player and a decent little drum machine in redrum, a basic but usuable analog synth in subtractor and malmstrom's graintable approach, analog stepsequencer, etc. for the cost of substantially less than buying a vst drum machine, a vst sample player with a whole batch of sampled sounds, an analog and graintable synth. And running 7 different Vsts simultaneously in Live *unless you do track freeze) takes a hell of a lot of CPU, Reason is pretty CPU friendly. And if rewire is too much ballache and CPU run it stand alone and export audio loops to import into Live.

Having said all of this, it was getting a bit tired but the new developments in Reason 4 look promising, especially the new sequencer view and Thor.