I have sussed out lives major feel problem

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:11 pm

mercyplease wrote:fanboys im serious here and despite your hate of the evil one this is a fact.Live is total shite with velocities. its an on or off state and if you know anything about dynamics you will know this is crucial to the whole feel and modd of a song even if you do compress the mix to death dynamics will still come through as feel. you know what im talking about and this makes loads of live productions feel totally ungroovy. i can hear a live production a mile of as long as the song isnt just a bunch of made up loops im talking about using impulse and lives other instruments. injecting feel and groovyness in to live is very difficult.
yes i can hear the fanboys saying I think its great i have no problem and all the usual denial stuff. thats because your making toneless feelless music. if you want to jack that floor live is not the software of choice
dont believe me download a demo of FL studio. instant groovyness.
Please German souless prgrammers can you do something about this. I know you all like to sit in botique art galleries and arty little cafes talking about how splendid abstract is but dont forget were not all in berlin patting each other on the back at our latest experimental toneless productions.
why is it germans either make total cheese or drone music?

If you rely on Live's instruments, of course it's gonna sound like Live.

But what you're not acknowledging is that it can be used in many, many different ways depending on how creative you wanna get. If you had a knife and only ever thought it was good for stabbing and killing things, you'd think it was a pretty limited tool. If you sussed out that you can also chop, scrape, shave and carve with it you'd have a different opinion.

And programmers don't make a DAW soulful..you do. They just give you the tool.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Heinz Graaf wrote:I dont understand.. Live lacks "groove"? How do you mean? Youre also talking about dynamics. I can see a link in dynamics and "the groove" of a beat but I still dont understand what youre saying.
I agree the Ableton sampler plugins need more modulation possibilities (a bigger matrix) to get more random variation in your rhythms but theres plenty of alternatives, both software and hardware.
I also think the Ableton sequencer most definitely needs an option to program control change. Or is it hidden somewhere??

Its nothing to do with modulation or matrixes or any othert bullshit crap that males no difference to the feel of music

Lives velocity engine is not up to par. If you cant hear it thats not my problem.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:46 pm

pulsoc wrote:

Your ignorant and obviously deaf

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:58 pm

the_planet wrote:How fucking hard is it to make your own goddamn groove?!
It's very simple. Just adjust the velocities yourself. Yes, Live has no "random velocity" feature". Get over it and make your own goddamn velocities.

"Injecting Groove" is not very difficult at all. It's just a matter of creatively adjusting velocities and swing - Something that is VERY simple to do using Live. Hell, I did it five fucking minutes ago. I nearly always do it with my hihats if they are 16th notes because it sounds nice in a house track.

Easy peasy. Live is a barebones tool. People like you want to rely on your equipment for creativity when you should rely on yourself.

Live does not allow you to make subtle velocity changes that sound good, its an on or off detail and they get completely lost in teh mix.
People like me have been funking it for years long before Ableton came on the go. This is the fucking problem with fanboys like you that have only ever experienced Live. Get out and about and hear the worlld about you.

I nearly always do it with my hihats if they are 16th notes because it sounds nice in a house track.

Oh does it sound nice I would never have guessed. Maybe just maybe thats why i posted the thread

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:04 pm

silicon1138 wrote:Maybe it's just your own tunes that sound crap?
Live works wonders for me and a million other talented users.
How can you not be happy with 127 levels of velocity?
What are you talking about anyway? groove coming from velocity? Shouldn't you be talking about quantise or swing?

this is one of the most lame posts i've read in a long time.

Another idiot that has no clue how important dynamics are to the groove of any instrument.

What are you talking about anyway? groove coming from velocity?

Your ignoramce on a basic musical foundation is astounding. For your own sake go and try a hardware box from roland or any other hardware manufacturer then compare their 127 levels with lives. Afterwards clean your mouth out with soap and Pm me with an apology

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:05 pm

Michael-SW wrote:Belgian programmers (or is it dutch?) are soo much better than their german counterparts. That is why music sounds better in FL.

(Not slamming either software. Good music sounds good, regardless of your tools. Use the tools you are most comfortable with.)

agreed

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:09 pm

hoffman2k wrote:

Only a real fanboy knows how to make instruments respond to velocity

If anyone in here talks garbage its certainly you. And YOU know exactly who I am.

Fuck you Hoffman you have achieved nothing.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:13 pm

Funkstar De Luxe wrote:No, Live's major problem is that the midi timing is quite loose sometimes. Also, WE NEED A GROOVE FUCTION. Some way of using Cubase groove files would be great - anything but that shitty swing control

Its not loose to my ears its rigid as hell and has a weird static robotic feel and I agree its shitty swing feature is basically an insult. The lack of audible but subtle velocity changes in live just make it all the more worse.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:16 pm

Heinz Graaf wrote:I dont understand.. Live lacks "groove"? How do you mean? Youre also talking about dynamics. I can see a link in dynamics and "the groove" of a beat but I still dont understand what youre saying.
I agree the Ableton sampler plugins need more modulation possibilities (a bigger matrix) to get more random variation in your rhythms but theres plenty of alternatives, both software and hardware.
I also think the Ableton sequencer most definitely needs an option to program control change. Or is it hidden somewhere??

Velocity is dynamics. Dont get confused with plugins ie compressors ie dynamic containing plugins.

Dominik · Post by **Dominik** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:19 pm

hoffman2k wrote:

two moos makes more milk than one moo.

you're right.

Funkstar De Luxe · Post by **Funkstar De Luxe** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:19 pm

mercyplease wrote:
Funkstar De Luxe wrote:No, Live's major problem is that the midi timing is quite loose sometimes. Also, WE NEED A GROOVE FUCTION. Some way of using Cubase groove files would be great - anything but that shitty swing control
Its not loose to my ears its rigid as hell and has a weird static robotic feel and I agree its shitty swing feature is basically an insult. The lack of audible but subtle velocity changes in live just make it all the more worse.

Wait. These are midi notes. They can only have a velocity of 0-127. Ableton is only sending this data to your chosen VST.

Yes, the swing pisses me off more than anything. Insult is indeed the right word.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:20 pm

Funkstar De Luxe wrote:
P220ST wrote:Before you rush out to buy Cubase, bear in mind that you can have Live as a Rewire slave but for some reason you can't have VSTs in Live when it is a Rewire slave.

The OP is right: Live, though an immensely creative, spontaneous platform, is not exactly designed to inject sould into your music.

Great topic for discussion, though. How do you put soul into your Ableton music? God knows, it doesn't all sound like house music.

-P220ST
Hmm, that's not so good then. Actually I tend to hand edit all my midi track - which sucks Late hi hats add a lot of feel.
Isn't there a VST that can do this?

you see what you said there
this is because you cant play a manual hi hat pattern in live using impulse and naturally have those dynamics cutting out the groove depending on how hard you hit the keys or pads. you can with an mpc and other daws but not live. This is a programming thing and they should sort it out. Christ its obvious why cant so many not hear this Even then trying to edit with the mouse just doesnt seem to gel. Its much more obvious with percussion and drums perhaps not so with soft synths and definitely not with drum loops or any other audio loop(*&*%^ obviously in case the noobs dont get what Im saying

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:23 pm

I said what I said and thats it. For all my faults and for the people that hate me here because I speak the truth and wont join their little basement club I am serious about this. Added with lives complete lack of groove function it makes this software a robots dream. I do get feel from it but it takes a lot of work and even then just never sounds quite right.
dynamics are so important in music period
I rest my case

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:30 pm

mercyplease wrote:If anyone in here talks garbage its certainly you. And YOU know exactly who I am.

Hey, you're talking about the "flawed velocity engine".
You're obviously the ignorant one..

What you're looking for is this:

Or the equivalent of whatever plugin you're using...

Have fun talking yourself out of this one..

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:06 pm

it all comes down to not knowing how to work your gear...

I have sussed out lives major feel problem

Re: I have sussed out lives major feel problem

Re: groovy velocities?