For the sake of my question lets pretend I don't already live only 45 minutes from SF and spend time there often. Visiting a place frequently and living there are 2 way different things altogether, especially in a large city with 2 dozen different districts and neighborhoods.
Just when I was getting the cash together and got the job stability locked down I found out that I will not be able to move into my friend's house in the Mission due to a mess involving his father-in-law, building permits, and blah blah blah, can't get into it. Just when things were really looking up they shot way down.
So I am either doomed to stay in the South Bay where the local creativity is non-existent and I stay depressed or I persevere and move forward with my goal to move to The City (Did you know if you address a letter with the street address and "The City", CA it will actually make it to the right address in San Francisco? It's true).
The thing is I have no idea what neighborhoods are ideal, other than the mission, for creative types who want to wonder just blocks from home to find art, music, and crappy yet fine dining, and at the same time not worry about having a laptop that is worth more than my car. While nobody here has any control over this, I also need to live in a house/apartment that is music friendly. I've been told that shouldn't be hard because every 3rd person in SF is either a DJ or musician. But I also don't want to live with 6 other people who party all night because I have to be to work at 7 AM in Hayward (30 minute drive).
Lastly, I don't want to drop more than $1,000 a month and that is pushing it, but worth it for the right place/neighborhood. Is this all just a pipe dream?
Any help would be, well, helpful.
To my San Francisco musical brothers, where to move?
honestly
I would move to the east bay oakland, berkley, emeryville. Your not going to get much for your $$$ without living with 6 people 3 of them doing lots of meth!
I would move to the east bay oakland, berkley, emeryville. Your not going to get much for your $$$ without living with 6 people 3 of them doing lots of meth!
http://soundcloud.com/aislingbeing
Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.
Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.
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donnydonny
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:36 am
- Location: San Francisco, USA
- Contact:
I've spent enough time in the East Bay to know I wouldn't want to live there. It's not all "gangsta Oakland" like the rest of the world thinks but it's not really the kind of crowd I am looking for, and honestly I think I could find more of the nightlife I would be looking for in San Jose.
The fatal flaw with Haight is there is absolutely zero parking and there are some downright scary parts. I'd check around Nob Hill and I had a friend that lived in the North Beach area. The other thing that is appealing to me about the Mission area is that it is southern SF and that would make a huge difference on my work commute if I don't have to drive too deep into the city.
The fatal flaw with Haight is there is absolutely zero parking and there are some downright scary parts. I'd check around Nob Hill and I had a friend that lived in the North Beach area. The other thing that is appealing to me about the Mission area is that it is southern SF and that would make a huge difference on my work commute if I don't have to drive too deep into the city.
loose the car or pay for parking in your 'hood. not all areas are tough to find parking. typically it costs $150-$200/month.
rent isn't much cheaper out there and you end up paying more in gas to get to the city and it's a drop in the quality of life, unless you like the 'burbs. emeryville is rougher than all of SF, as is parts of berkeley and half of oakland.
I have to say I've known lots of people who said they wanted to live in the city but puss out and live in the outskirts, EVERY time the next step are the far out 'burbs. telling someone to not live in the city is denying them a great experience, it's like telling them to not making their own rack in Live because they don't get it. really life limiting advice. then there's the people that used to live in the city and move out. they return to visit and get really sad that they left and chose the burbs. the city is intense to live in after a few years, it's not for everyone but goddamn I LOVE this town to my core.
craigslist is good for apartments, if you can spend a bit of $$ do renttech.com, I've used them on my last few moves, good site, although it's been years since I've moved.
the mission is great. we've been in this part of town for 7 years and will be buying a place at the end of the summer/fall. I'd like to move around town to experience more but we're really considering staying in this part of town. GREAT food and bars, both cheap and expensive. the mission also has the best weather. on a foggy day you can see the city fogged in but look up in the mission and there's literally a circle of blue sky around the neighborhood.
open up a map of the city in mapquest and follow along...
mission
south of 16th st.
west of potrero
north of 24th
east of castro
in that area the south east part is called dogpatch, basically burningman central, lots of artists and musicians, check out cellspace for deets on that crowd
the west side of all that is dolores heights, it's up on a hill, more money, more expensive, west of that is the castro, more money.
parts along S van ness are shady, you can tell what's up by driving around.
lower haight is great, I used to live over there, more good food and bars, musicians, DJs, all that.
north of market
south of fell (traffic noise on fell and oak is constant, makes rent lower if you don't mind the constant sound of trafiic.)
west of gough
east of castro
lots of great people, cool vibe.
haight ashbury, basically a few blocks north or south of the panhandle 4-5 blocks
more of the same, cool people, bars and food
north of buena vista park (it's a big ol' hill)
east of the park
west of alamo square. btw north east of alamo square is heavy with gangs, stay out, overall SF isn't 'rough' but that area is always in the news. on the gang tip, stay away from south of Geary along Fillmore to alamo square, a few blocks east/west of fillmore. that's the other gang turf, they war with the alamo square gangs (I was almost jumped there once after a show at the fillmore auditorium, s-h-a-d-y.) hell, for that matter there have been shootings between latino gangs on both ends of my block but they seem to keep it to themselves. the gangs around alamo square are just rough, they hang out and intimidate people. it's the city, what do you expect?
the sunset district is the huge area
south of golden gate park
east of the ocean (duh)
north of sloat
west of the haight
outer sunset is west of 19th ave, inner sunset is the east half
outer sunset is mostly single family dwellings with parking, the west end of town is also the foggiest (the irony of calling it the SUNset isn't lost of people living there.) there's not much out there but it's near the beach and can be cheaper.
inner sunset has some great restaurants, lots of places to eat, bars and stuff.
north of the panhandle is the richmond district
south of the presidio
north of the park
west of arguello (which is actually 1st ave but not called that) btw all the streets running east-west starting at Anza are alphabetical, starting at anza in the richmond, all the way south through the park, into the sunset down to yorba (which is a small street), vicente is the last of the major streets. if you know that tip you have nearly half the city laid out.
the sunset and richmond are VERY similar, the richmond has a stronger asian flavor, sunset is more mixed.
north of california street is MONEY
north beach is pretty intense, but tons of eats and drinks, too touristy for me but TONS going on.
the presidio is detached from the city but it's quiet, beautiful and just a few years ago they opened it up for people to live in (Lucas bought most of it to make another ILM campus)
forget
ne of 10th to the bay
south of market
rough part or downtown super rich.
north of that area is a mix of the tenderloin, north beach, chinatown...
I can't stand the marina and the yuppies, just not my people.
oh, and then there's potrero hill, an up and coming area. it's like the sunset on hills. there's a small area of restaurants and bars, good stuff. potrero hill is east of the mission, north of cesar chavez, south of 17th, west of 3rd st. STAY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HILLTOP. the south side is a pretty huge project area, gangs. you know when you watch mythbusters and there's those apartments in the background that line the hills like striations in the rocks? that's the backside of poterero hill, those are the PJs.
typically on hills is safer, randoms out roaming looking to break into cars and mug people don't like to go uphill. each part of town varies block by block, for example alamo square has some really nice places (the famous 'painted ladies', that row of houses that has downtown in the background, the victorians that are all painted up...these
border alamo square, nice places, some historic buildings. SF definitely has the dichotomy of the rich living by the poor. 99% of the people are great, it just takes 1 or 2 to screw it up.
OK... any questions? 'nuff of that rant. if you want I can drive you around in my convertible and show you around one weekend. a great thing about SF is that it's only 49 square miles, it's real easy to get to know but it has that city experience.
wtf am I saying??? worldwide forum telling people to move here. DON'T MOVE HERE, IT'S UGLY, EXPENSIVE AND ALWAYS FOGGED OVER, RENT'S HIGH ENOUGH, STAY AWAY.
hth sorry for typos, I'm not proofreading all that.
fuck the bridge and tunnel people and get the hell out of san hoe!aisling wrote:honestly
I would move to the east bay oakland, berkley, emeryville. Your not going to get much for your $$$ without living with 6 people 3 of them doing lots of meth!
rent isn't much cheaper out there and you end up paying more in gas to get to the city and it's a drop in the quality of life, unless you like the 'burbs. emeryville is rougher than all of SF, as is parts of berkeley and half of oakland.I have to say I've known lots of people who said they wanted to live in the city but puss out and live in the outskirts, EVERY time the next step are the far out 'burbs. telling someone to not live in the city is denying them a great experience, it's like telling them to not making their own rack in Live because they don't get it. really life limiting advice. then there's the people that used to live in the city and move out. they return to visit and get really sad that they left and chose the burbs. the city is intense to live in after a few years, it's not for everyone but goddamn I LOVE this town to my core.
craigslist is good for apartments, if you can spend a bit of $$ do renttech.com, I've used them on my last few moves, good site, although it's been years since I've moved.
the mission is great. we've been in this part of town for 7 years and will be buying a place at the end of the summer/fall. I'd like to move around town to experience more but we're really considering staying in this part of town. GREAT food and bars, both cheap and expensive. the mission also has the best weather. on a foggy day you can see the city fogged in but look up in the mission and there's literally a circle of blue sky around the neighborhood.
open up a map of the city in mapquest and follow along...
mission
south of 16th st.
west of potrero
north of 24th
east of castro
in that area the south east part is called dogpatch, basically burningman central, lots of artists and musicians, check out cellspace for deets on that crowd
the west side of all that is dolores heights, it's up on a hill, more money, more expensive, west of that is the castro, more money.
parts along S van ness are shady, you can tell what's up by driving around.
lower haight is great, I used to live over there, more good food and bars, musicians, DJs, all that.
north of market
south of fell (traffic noise on fell and oak is constant, makes rent lower if you don't mind the constant sound of trafiic.)
west of gough
east of castro
lots of great people, cool vibe.
haight ashbury, basically a few blocks north or south of the panhandle 4-5 blocks
more of the same, cool people, bars and food
north of buena vista park (it's a big ol' hill)
east of the park
west of alamo square. btw north east of alamo square is heavy with gangs, stay out, overall SF isn't 'rough' but that area is always in the news. on the gang tip, stay away from south of Geary along Fillmore to alamo square, a few blocks east/west of fillmore. that's the other gang turf, they war with the alamo square gangs (I was almost jumped there once after a show at the fillmore auditorium, s-h-a-d-y.) hell, for that matter there have been shootings between latino gangs on both ends of my block but they seem to keep it to themselves. the gangs around alamo square are just rough, they hang out and intimidate people. it's the city, what do you expect?
the sunset district is the huge area
south of golden gate park
east of the ocean (duh)
north of sloat
west of the haight
outer sunset is west of 19th ave, inner sunset is the east half
outer sunset is mostly single family dwellings with parking, the west end of town is also the foggiest (the irony of calling it the SUNset isn't lost of people living there.) there's not much out there but it's near the beach and can be cheaper.
inner sunset has some great restaurants, lots of places to eat, bars and stuff.
north of the panhandle is the richmond district
south of the presidio
north of the park
west of arguello (which is actually 1st ave but not called that) btw all the streets running east-west starting at Anza are alphabetical, starting at anza in the richmond, all the way south through the park, into the sunset down to yorba (which is a small street), vicente is the last of the major streets. if you know that tip you have nearly half the city laid out.
the sunset and richmond are VERY similar, the richmond has a stronger asian flavor, sunset is more mixed.
north of california street is MONEY
north beach is pretty intense, but tons of eats and drinks, too touristy for me but TONS going on.
the presidio is detached from the city but it's quiet, beautiful and just a few years ago they opened it up for people to live in (Lucas bought most of it to make another ILM campus)
forget
ne of 10th to the bay
south of market
rough part or downtown super rich.
north of that area is a mix of the tenderloin, north beach, chinatown...
I can't stand the marina and the yuppies, just not my people.
oh, and then there's potrero hill, an up and coming area. it's like the sunset on hills. there's a small area of restaurants and bars, good stuff. potrero hill is east of the mission, north of cesar chavez, south of 17th, west of 3rd st. STAY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HILLTOP. the south side is a pretty huge project area, gangs. you know when you watch mythbusters and there's those apartments in the background that line the hills like striations in the rocks? that's the backside of poterero hill, those are the PJs.
typically on hills is safer, randoms out roaming looking to break into cars and mug people don't like to go uphill. each part of town varies block by block, for example alamo square has some really nice places (the famous 'painted ladies', that row of houses that has downtown in the background, the victorians that are all painted up...these
border alamo square, nice places, some historic buildings. SF definitely has the dichotomy of the rich living by the poor. 99% of the people are great, it just takes 1 or 2 to screw it up.
OK... any questions? 'nuff of that rant. if you want I can drive you around in my convertible and show you around one weekend. a great thing about SF is that it's only 49 square miles, it's real easy to get to know but it has that city experience.
wtf am I saying??? worldwide forum telling people to move here. DON'T MOVE HERE, IT'S UGLY, EXPENSIVE AND ALWAYS FOGGED OVER, RENT'S HIGH ENOUGH, STAY AWAY.
hth sorry for typos, I'm not proofreading all that.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
aisling, where do you reside? I took it you lived outside the states, but I don't know. you do know the yay area though. Alameda is another option for people to move to. piedmont is the better area of oakland/berkeley. the hills above oakland/berkeley are surprisingly good to live in, still close to it all but safe, views and quiet.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Well I spent years in the city, sunset district, silver terrace, and then moved to berkley, oakland and now live up in sonoma county (coma).....LAME music scene up here unless you doing NU metal, gansta rap and blues.......But I love the fact that I am in the country buying organic food from farmers markets and such......I miss the city and enjoy it when I get down there (not enough) but I just had more space demands then I could get for my $ in the city.
I am from the east coast originally (NJ) so I am used to "rough" areas and emeryville, oakland, berkley seemed like tiburon to me. I could not get hassled with a fist full of $20's even if I trtied. I personally LOVED oakland (lake merrit area) had a HUGE flat with a studio, parking, extrta bedroom for guests at a real decent price.
No doubt the city has it's mgic and enrgey, but at the end of the day in my house, space was the most desirable asset.
I guess it's all subjective.
tone is right that it's worth living in the city at some point in your life......
I am from the east coast originally (NJ) so I am used to "rough" areas and emeryville, oakland, berkley seemed like tiburon to me. I could not get hassled with a fist full of $20's even if I trtied. I personally LOVED oakland (lake merrit area) had a HUGE flat with a studio, parking, extrta bedroom for guests at a real decent price.
No doubt the city has it's mgic and enrgey, but at the end of the day in my house, space was the most desirable asset.
I guess it's all subjective.
tone is right that it's worth living in the city at some point in your life......
http://soundcloud.com/aislingbeing
Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.
Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.
Alameda has a some cool parts and yes piedmont is quite cool.Tone Deft wrote:aisling, where do you reside? I took it you lived outside the states, but I don't know. you do know the yay area though. Alameda is another option for people to move to. piedmont is the better area of oakland/berkeley. the hills above oakland/berkeley are surprisingly good to live in, still close to it all but safe, views and quiet.
I live up in sebastopol now. I kind of did the fringe living thing for a while, lived in a yurt up in the redwoods, a solar/wind powered place for a while, but have a house now......nothing special just more space for my $.
sadly I don't have a studio space these days, as I have 2 kids.....
The music scene is VERY LAME as I mentioned. I miss people who live in the 21st century and are not intimidated by a filter sweep, virtual analog synth......
Last edited by aisling on Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://soundcloud.com/aislingbeing
Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.
Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.
fuckin-a right on!! I could see myself retiring up there (although I NEED to live next to the ocean at some point), the wife and I love the wines and food, napa/sonoma are just beautiful, there's some uber money that would get under my skin but damn, that's the good life. one thing about the north bay and music that you have over SF is that you guys can find places to practice and get LOUD. studios in SF are rare and not cheap, even finding someone who has a space is tough. all in all we're both lucky to live in the area, the food, the wine, the culture... and frankly the rest of the country scares me.aisling wrote:Well I spent years in the city, sunset district, silver terrace, and then moved to berkley, oakland and now live up in sonoma county (coma).....LAME music scene up here unless you doing NU metal, gansta rap and blues.......But I love the fact that I am in the country buying organic food from farmers markets and such......I miss the city and enjoy it when I get down there (not enough) but I just had more space demands then I could get for my $ in the city.
I am from the east coast originally (NJ) so I am used to "rough" areas and emeryville, oakland, berkley seemed like tiburon to me. I could not get hassled with a fist full of $20's even if I trtied. I personally LOVED oakland (lake merrit area) had a HUGE flat with a studio, parking, extrta bedroom for guests at a real decent price.
No doubt the city has it's mgic and enrgey, but at the end of the day in my house, space was the most desirable asset.
I guess it's all subjective.
tone is right that it's worth living in the city at some point in your life......
HOMEBOY!!!
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
sebastopol is 20 min from the ocean. A big surf scene up here (I don't surfTone Deft wrote:
. all in all we're both lucky to live in the area, the food, the wine, the culture... and frankly the rest of the country scares me.
HOMEBOY!!!
) there are rich snobs, but they don't bother me. The 420 is quite nice too......I just realy miss people who enjoy electronica!
http://soundcloud.com/aislingbeing
Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.
Live, Reason, Moog sub phatty, Moog sub 37, Ozone 6, guitars, Pedals, proper ergonomic sitting posture, french pressed coffee with a pinch of cardamon.
Wow, there would be too much quoting to do over the last couple of posts so I will just skip that (because I am lazy) and try to remember all that was said.
Tone,
Thanks for all that useful information. I have spent a lot of time in different areas that you mentioned. The house I was going to move into is roughly on Florida and 22nd or 23rd, or some shit. I like it there, still kind of a neighborhood feeling but still walking distance from some good bar stools. Another bonus is that it is a pretty quick stop off of 101, good for the commute to and from work. Remember I work in Hayward, so not having a car is not an option. I just got hired at the job and my plan is to get settled into the city, stay at this company for about a year (big impressive name on the resume) and then look for work closer or in SF.
I also agree with you about living IN the city. By your explanation of living in the burbs you couldn't be much more of a pussy than living in SJ, the farthest burbs south of SF. My point of moving isn't to sorta-kinda live near the city. I want to go balls out....but with a reasonable amount of safety and within financial means.
aisling,
The friend who's house I was going to move into used to live by Lake Merrit on Grand Avenue, so I've spent a lot of time there....a little too much time at Kingman's. My ex of about 2 years also lived in the Oakland hills. So I have plenty of hours clocked in the East Bay. I don't hate it but feel at this point it would be pussing out even more moving to that area than just staying in San Jose. At least in San Jose I don't have to look across a bridge, point, and go "Yeah, I just couldn't make it." and then get a DUI crossing the Bay Bridge chasing my dream.
Tone,
Thanks for all that useful information. I have spent a lot of time in different areas that you mentioned. The house I was going to move into is roughly on Florida and 22nd or 23rd, or some shit. I like it there, still kind of a neighborhood feeling but still walking distance from some good bar stools. Another bonus is that it is a pretty quick stop off of 101, good for the commute to and from work. Remember I work in Hayward, so not having a car is not an option. I just got hired at the job and my plan is to get settled into the city, stay at this company for about a year (big impressive name on the resume) and then look for work closer or in SF.
I also agree with you about living IN the city. By your explanation of living in the burbs you couldn't be much more of a pussy than living in SJ, the farthest burbs south of SF. My point of moving isn't to sorta-kinda live near the city. I want to go balls out....but with a reasonable amount of safety and within financial means.
aisling,
The friend who's house I was going to move into used to live by Lake Merrit on Grand Avenue, so I've spent a lot of time there....a little too much time at Kingman's. My ex of about 2 years also lived in the Oakland hills. So I have plenty of hours clocked in the East Bay. I don't hate it but feel at this point it would be pussing out even more moving to that area than just staying in San Jose. At least in San Jose I don't have to look across a bridge, point, and go "Yeah, I just couldn't make it." and then get a DUI crossing the Bay Bridge chasing my dream.
-
bigbadotis
- Posts: 836
- Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 10:31 pm
- Location: rochester, ny
- Contact:
having previously lived in Oakland and Berkeley for six years, I would say most parts of them are pretty safe, but it's all relative. You don't have to live up in the hills, that's for sure...
Piedmont? Alameda? Mr. Deft, that's just crazy talk... you've inhaled too much solder while working on your monome :) I really think living near BART (walking distance) is important if you're going to be in city a lot, even if it only covers your daytime excursions. There are lots of nice places near the Rockridge, Ashby, Berkeley / North Berkeley stops. Macarthur is a little sketchier but the neighborhood (Temescal) is definitely up and coming... plus there's kick ass sandwiches at Genova's.
All that said, I will definitely move into the city if I move back to the Bay Area. Just wanted to chime in and say that safety shouldn't be a primary reason for not choosing the East Bay.
Piedmont? Alameda? Mr. Deft, that's just crazy talk... you've inhaled too much solder while working on your monome :) I really think living near BART (walking distance) is important if you're going to be in city a lot, even if it only covers your daytime excursions. There are lots of nice places near the Rockridge, Ashby, Berkeley / North Berkeley stops. Macarthur is a little sketchier but the neighborhood (Temescal) is definitely up and coming... plus there's kick ass sandwiches at Genova's.
All that said, I will definitely move into the city if I move back to the Bay Area. Just wanted to chime in and say that safety shouldn't be a primary reason for not choosing the East Bay.
otis - you nailed the east bay spots. I'd need a lobotomy to live in Alameda but it's an option, an island community off of oaktown. north berkeley is nice, but I don't know those areas very well. I lived for a summer at parker and ellsworth in berkeley, just south of telegraph, not far from campus. security guards in every store made it feel like a demilitarized zone, crackheads living in our carport, muggings on the street, I didn't like it very much. I've never heard of temescal, interesting. asking me about east bay living is like asking me about cubase (whatever that is) it's cool to hear from other people about those areas. my wife lived in piedmont when we met, nice area but that was most of my exposure to living in that part of the area. I grew up in walnut creek (oh god...) and kinda know the far east bay but haven't been back in decades, just short visits to the parentals a once or twice a year.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
beats - florida is a cool area (I'm at 20th and Valencia btw), right in 'dogpatch' in the week before burningman there's HUGE trucks on just about every block so the BIG camps can get their gear up to the playa. parking's not too bad around there as there are a lot of lofts and work spaces. you'll be fine, keep an eye on the listings, once you get into a place, live there for a year and then move to another spot, slowly your salary goes up and your places get bigger. my first place was TINY, 8 years later I have a whole flat (but no #$%^ing parking!! so I pay for that.)
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz
-
elevation1972
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:11 am
- Location: Bay Area, CA
- Contact:
I grew up in the East Bay (Berkeley, Oakland, Piedmont) & loved it. Berkeley is great for record spots aka Telegraph Ave.(Amoeba, Rasputins), Dank clubs, culture, etc. I currently live in the north bay (Vallejo) and it's cool, a lot more quiet & more space for the money but not much. The city is dope if you really like to go allot to clubs, shows, resturants, etc. Parking in the city usaully sucks, so if you live there public trans is the way to go most of the time. If you really want to live there go for it, just make sure you can afford it. But the bay area is pretty expensive all over so you may as well live there if you want to. Noe Valley is a cool part city to live, close to the mission, haight, etc. Kinda expensve though. Good luck...