a different approach to looping

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
queglay
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Post by queglay » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:47 am

it isn't instantaneous though. and if it starts the loop again while you are still making the ajustment, it could affect the timing and syncronistation of an attached sequencer (which runs the show), because it could start half way through a bar. and i dont have live 7. i also have multiple tracks which will have independent loop times.

Thanks again for your suggestions though Timur.
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monoschall
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top down looping?

Post by monoschall » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:34 pm

instead of looping left to right or arabic style (right to left) why not loop top down (or down up).

Loop in the frequency domain! - looping in the time domain is so 90's!

salatspinatra
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Post by salatspinatra » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:38 pm

I didn't read the fine print of Timur's response, but I think he deserves the credit for this.
It sounds like what you want is similar to a "survelience" Camera tape. You don't need to monitor it all the time, but when something happens that you want to make note of, you can measure out the time and find it on the tape.

Why not simply record from the transport all your session jams? Then when you're in a groove, move over to arrangement, bracket off the chunk you like, and press what-would-it-be? consolidate?

-salat

Aequitas123
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Post by Aequitas123 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:26 pm

I have a Effects Rack that someone had posted a while ago for free. Its just a looper/repeator but you could easily control the length of the loop.

All you need to do is set the loop length then start recording your audio, when you've just played some stuff you like you would turn the Rack on and start recording in a new track. Easy.

Sorry i can't remember the name of the Rack. I think it was something about DJ racks.

voder
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Post by voder » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:02 pm

with regards to audio, crossfade loop synth effect should allow you to do what you want.

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/xfadelooper.html

check the demo or the manual.

Landwhale
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Post by Landwhale » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:22 am

Have a go at this. It's a live set that will do most of what you want, with audio anyways. It only uses Live's devices, no external plugins, so it should work fine for most people.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/u1wcw5

Using five computer keys or midi controllers, you can control the Loop Record Start/Erase, Overdub, and choose between 1,2,4 and 8 bars.

Everything is setup as needed, just map your computer keys or midi controller like the following picture.

Image



If you added some dummy clips to quantize things, you could probably get even close to what you're looking for. I'm too tired to work on it more right now.

This definitely has room to be improved on, I'm sure it can be cleaned up a bit, plus the way it is midi-controlled can be changed for personal preference.

If anyone wants to improve on it, feel free!

(Also, I'm still on Live 6, on Leopard, so not 100% sure this will work the same in Live 5 or Live 7.)

salatspinatra
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man that's cold

Post by salatspinatra » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:43 pm

okay, go with this rack for now would be better advice than my previous suggestion. I just made an attempt to consolidate an arrangement loop (not running) while I was clearly running a Session window scene. Doesn't matter. It will stop your audio. Globally? Yeah, I think so.

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:11 pm

I haven't tried this, just an idea :

Setup 2 midi tracks for your input device, with monitor set to IN.
Setup midi track 3 with the input of track 3 coming from the output of track 2 (probably from the midi delay device itself), and monitor set to OFF and record enabled.
Put a 16-bar midi delay plugin on track 2.
Set the outputs of tracks 1 and 3 to a 4th midi track that has the target instrument plugin.
Now track 3 will be receiving the midi data you played 16-bars ago, which you can record, and as soon as you stop recording it will play the clip.

I think this should work for you're wanting. Track 3 will always be receiving what you played 16 bars ago, so you can retroactively record what you played, and it will only send the recording once it is playing. I'll try this out later too...something I've wanted to do for awhile.
Last edited by ethios4 on Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:13 pm

There's a midi delay here but it is not tempo-synced, which would be ideal of course.

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:29 pm

There's a tempo-synced delay in the list at the top of this thread....Mac and PC. I have problems setting delay times longer than 1 bar, so I've made a chain of MIDI tracks that add more and more delay until I get to 8 bars or whatever.

The technique I described above actually does work....pretty cool!

Landwhale
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Post by Landwhale » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:58 pm

ethios4, that's how my live set that I posted works also.
Pretty dope if it works for midi as well!

I used to love my old boss dd-3's hold function, but wished it could tempo sync.
Now I have it :)

Now if Ableton would just wrap it all up in a plugin, and add some nice options.......

os
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Post by os » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:32 pm

re. Augustus Loop
queglay wrote:ill give it a shot. im on windows though. does ableton use au plugins?
Augustus Loop is available as a Windows VST.

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:29 am

Landwhale wrote:I used to love my old boss dd-3's hold function, but wished it could tempo sync.
Now I have it :)

Now if Ableton would just wrap it all up in a plugin, and add some nice options.......
Well, you pretty much nailed it there, buddy. Live 8 looper.

The Landwhale
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Post by The Landwhale » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:39 am

:) Yeah, Looper looks fantastic. I REALLY hope it doesn't take too long for Live 8's release.

Did you get a chance to try out my looper live set?

jlgrimes
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Post by jlgrimes » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:41 pm

I've been wanting this feature and well (and from what I can tell other users want this as well).

My problem is that I Rarely use 1 bar loops, so a 1 bar loop default for me is pointless. You will be comforted to know that Project 5 also has this problem. This problem (IMO) is overlooked on pattern sequencer designs. They assume we will always want to manually modify loop length before recording each pass and provides no insight that some of us want longer bar lengths than one.


I created a survey about this in the feature request forum and only about 10% of the users use primarily 1 bar loops, which kind of let Ableton know not having Clip loop length defaults. That said this feature request compared to others like groove quantize, session view automation recording isn't that popular so I don't expect to see this until a couple of more versions.

Many people I think don't realize how much of a bottleneck this is.

Participate in my feature request poll.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=94947

If this is in Live 8, I would really be shocked.



Fortunately though, Live has more workarounds (although not complete workarounds) to this than Project 5. One thing you can do is create templates with 4 bar empty clips on each track (or whatever default length you prefer using). You can also use the enter key like others mentioned to quantize your length. I also experimented with Bomes and midi yoke to automatically press the enter key after I record (that way I can use the global quantize to set loop length, must use a timer if using count-in function.) The final workaround is to do your recording in the arrange view. Arrangeview is much easier to select multiple track ranges for clip length in insert midi clip, the midi clip will be whatever loop length your range is. This is way more options than P5, however a simple clip default will solve this issue best.

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