Do you really want VSTi support?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
mosca
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Do you really want VSTi support?

Post by mosca » Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:40 am

do you? i don't think that i do.

i love live as it is - surely adding VSTi's to the mix is going to change the program beyond the call of duty.

what do you think - and why?

mosca

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:31 pm

hmmm...I've been getting alot of sounds from native instruments and microtonic and it would just make it alot easier - for a start there would no longer be a need for plogue bidule, which is great but it's gotta be better to have one less app in the loop chewing the juice, especially when the NI stuff is so CPU heavy.

At the moment it's quicker and easier to use reason for sound sources directly in live, so unless the props do it or at least midi out, (but then pigs don't tend to fly) but i'd rather use my NI stuff for alot of things.

Amberience
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Post by Amberience » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:01 am

I really do not want VSTi's natively adopted into Live. I want more connectivity between programs.

The solution is not to be found in the disolution of programs like Bidule or Fruityloops. These programs are our saviours from corporate whores such as Steinberg and Emagic who time and time again deliver shoddily made products which lack the simplicity of features that musicians and composers and DJ's require.

Why people would even think of introducing VSTi's into Live eludes me - I see no logical sense to this argument, let alone the obvious drawbacks to stability.

dirtystudios
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Post by dirtystudios » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:34 am

i like the idea of ableton developing a second program with midi sequencing and vsti hosting that integrates seamlessly with live, especially if they stick with the smae gui style.

k

Amberience
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Post by Amberience » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:43 am

Meh... not sure about that... if it acted like a rewire slave and no other connection with Live at all, then I'm for that.

The reason I say no other connection is because it could compromise the stability of Live if it had silly features... it would need to be something like Bidule I think

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:50 am

If you're on the PC platform, you should really check out EnergyXTE.

It's wicked and lets you use VSTi's a lot more easily than with Bidule and lower overhead.

With Bidule, I had lots of problems using VSTi on a Live machine that was synced to another Live machine, the clock was all over the shop.

godder

Post by godder » Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:38 am

sweetjesus wrote:If you're on the PC platform, you should really check out EnergyXTE.

It's wicked and lets you use VSTi's a lot more easily than with Bidule and lower overhead.

With Bidule, I had lots of problems using VSTi on a Live machine that was synced to another Live machine, the clock was all over the shop.
trying energy now - it looks great, but I cant figure out how to get my keyboard to play my vstis through it and it crashed on me (live needs to close, send to bill gates??) twice. Really like the concept, looks ideal but the stability worries me....

godder

Post by godder » Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:52 am

godder wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:If you're on the PC platform, you should really check out EnergyXTE.

It's wicked and lets you use VSTi's a lot more easily than with Bidule and lower overhead.

With Bidule, I had lots of problems using VSTi on a Live machine that was synced to another Live machine, the clock was all over the shop.
trying energy now - it looks great, but I cant figure out how to get my keyboard to play my vstis through it and it crashed on me (live needs to close, send to bill gates??) twice. Really like the concept, looks ideal but the stability worries me....
actually I just read in the help section that it gets midi from the host - so in the case of live this would mean it still doesn't solve the midi keyboard problem - is it possible to run xt standalone and still sync to live, or is there any other way around this?

Basically I don't want to have to program with only step sequencers or drawing in notes, I want to play it in with a keyboard

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:09 pm

[quote="Amberience"]

The solution is not to be found in the disolution of programs like Bidule or Fruityloops. These programs are our saviours from corporate whores such as Steinberg and Emagic who time and time again deliver shoddily made products which lack the simplicity of features that musicians and composers and DJ's require.quote]

You obviously haven't used or purchased Fruity Loops. It isn't made by steinberg or emagic (its Image Line), they are not corporate whores. Their product is hands-down the best deal for the price in the audio app industry, and it is super stable. It functions excellently as a rewire slave to Live, and I gig with the two weekly on a pc laptop. So to recap, FL is a great product for an amazing price, is not shoddy, or made by corporate whores, and has a feature set that perfectly complements Live. Please use something and know a bit about it before you rip on it with false accusations.

Ryan

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:16 pm

Ryan - I think you'll find if you read that post over again carefully that that was exactly what was being said :)

It's Friday. Let's all just go for a pint.

-Paws
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.

David
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Post by David » Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:00 pm

I really want Live to support VSTi through Midi.

Before I kick in with my thoughts I better just say that I'm currently running Live 2.1.1 and not Live 3 so I'm not entirely sure what Live 3 can do in terms of midi, so I might be eating my own words in a short while, anyways...

I would like to see Live have 'Midi Tracks'. An Empty ' Midi Clip' could be created in an Empty 'Midi Clip Slot'. An empty Midi Clip when viewed in the Midi Clip Settings would resemble a keyboard on its side followed by the typical empty boxes where notes could be drawn in. Obvisouly things like note length, velocity, pitch bend etc..could be set for each note. The keyboard 'on its side' would perhaps resemble just one octave, which takes into account the viewable window space in the Clip Setting window..obvisouly it would be possible to move up and down octaves.

Midi Clips could be quantized and set to certain lengths i.e. 1 bar, 4 bars, 32 beats, 64 beats or whatever length. Thus, short midi loops could be created for repetitive basslines or long midi clips which lasted the length of the entire track could be set up....just as what happens with audio.

Effects could also be added to the chain, as is the same as audio.

Midi could also be rendered as audio and saved as audio loops in a specified folder.

I have an image in my mind of what it would look like..I hope you can 'see' it too, but I know its not always possible to visualise just from a description. Anyway, I hope you get the idea.

As they often say in forums....just my 2 cents,

David

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:09 pm

noisetonepause wrote:Ryan - I think you'll find if you read that post over again carefully that that was exactly what was being said :)

It's Friday. Let's all just go for a pint.

-Paws
I need that pint. damn, I misread, but to my defense the first line of that paragraph has a glaring "not" that shouldn't be there (if I now understand it correctly:

"The solution is not to be found in the disolution of programs like Bidule or Fruityloops. These programs are our saviours from corporate whores such as Steinberg and Emagic who time and time again deliver shoddily made products which lack the simplicity of features that musicians and composers and DJ's require."

I saw the not and got on the defensive too quick, my bad. Take out the not and me likey.

Ryan

David
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Post by David » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:39 pm

this is my vision of Live with Midi with a little help from Photoshop (151 kb but worth the wait)

www.david-e.de/Live 4.jpg

Notes could be recorded into a midi clip via the keyboard or drawn in...length of midi clips could be adjusted to suit...live could import midi files into a Midi Clip, just dragged and dropped like audio from the browser...midi tracks could be optional, thus, if you dont want to use midi dont insert any midi tracks...Live could function as a audio, audio/midi, midi workstation..

theres another 2 cents bringing it to a grand total of 4 cents.

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:17 pm

whoops!

try this

www.david-e.de/Live_4.jpg

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:39 pm

Anonymous wrote:whoops!

try this

www.david-e.de/Live_4.jpg
Nice photo shop job!

My two cents here - I like the idea of Live supporting MIDI and / or VSTi, personally. However, I can see why others would not. It's simple though, if you prefer a version of Live that doesn't support MIDI or VSTi, don't upgrade. There are folks who use Live 2.x for whatever reason, and it's simple - if you don't want to use the new version, it's not like your current version will melt in the sun or delete itself off your hard drive three days after a new version is released. sheesh.

I say add new features like MIDI. If you don't want it, don't upgrade (or downgrade from another person's perspective).

BTW, david-e, your concept could work with rewire and FL or Reason too. I don't care so much about VSTi as I would care about MIDI loops in the Live interface - now that's the cat's ass!

L8er
Montrealbreaks

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