all you IT degree types - how do you do it??

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forge
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all you IT degree types - how do you do it??

Post by forge » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:34 pm

I'm sure I could teach myself programming fairly easily and put in the time if properly motivated, but what I dont know is how the hell I am supposed to sit through lectures on this stuff

I seriously had to go home today because I was literally falling asleep

I dont think I've ever encountered anything as mind numbing as listening to an uninspiring IT lecturer talk about programming - not doing it, talking about it.

this is way harder than I thought, and not because of the subject matter, but because of the whole concept of trying to be interested enough to enjoy listening to someone talking about writing a bank account program to calculate sales tax

pixelbox
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Post by pixelbox » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:41 pm

It only gets worse. Why do you think all IT people are addicted to caffeine?

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:00 pm

i learnt programming on pen and paper before i had a computer (not joking).

then i started putting that code into QBASIC.

learning new bits of Syntax as time went along from the HELP / Syntax menu... making applications that used a syntax for the sake of using/learning that syntax.

i progressed to visual basic for DOS and some assembler in the background, assembler isnt useful unless you're working in hardware these days.. VB for DOS became VB for Windows, and then moved along and learnt ASP which is based on VB Script and has a lot of the conventions i learned with BASIC.

after ASP I learned PHP, Javascript, Actionscript and somewhere in between did SQL related stuff.

once you learn coding as a concept and can be arsed getting your head around syntax structures of diff languages (the annoying part for me).

hopefully that will have given you an idea of one programmers path.

beats me
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Post by beats me » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:03 pm

Everybody I know that has a job in IT or Internet infrastructure learned it on their own. They started screwing around with their computers or making a basic web page 10+ years ago and it just grew from there out of curiousity similar to us with music. At some point they got a job back when people were hiring anybody with a pulse and now they're making 6 figures for being in the right place at the right time.

I personally learn things better through experience than through reading about it or just watching somebody else talk about it. A great deal of what I have learned at my job is through fuck ups. It's kind of their training method, fuck something up and you'll do it correctly the next time.

mdk
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Post by mdk » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:13 pm

programming lectures are awful. every single one i ever went to sent me to sleep. they actually put me off programming. it wasnt until i needed a job and started 'doing' it that i enjoyed it again.

i think one of the worst parts is the utterly mind-numbingly dull examples they always choose...companies, employees, tax calculations.

reminds me of this :

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly ... _1000.html

probably the only ever interesting set of programming examples.
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sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:18 pm

mdk wrote:programming lectures are awful. every single one i ever went to sent me to sleep. they actually put me off programming. it wasnt until i needed a job and started 'doing' it that i enjoyed it again.

i think one of the worst parts is the utterly mind-numbingly dull examples they always choose...companies, employees, tax calculations.

reminds me of this :

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly ... _1000.html

probably the only ever interesting set of programming examples.
i remember going to "Oracle" seminars and conferences.

deadset, no hot chicks and a dude spraying valium into the minds of the audience with his drivel.

i wish i saw ballmer dance.

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:44 pm

mdk wrote: i think one of the worst parts is the utterly mind-numbingly dull examples they always choose...companies, employees, tax calculations.

reminds me of this :

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly ... _1000.html

probably the only ever interesting set of programming examples.
exactly! it's just so hard to concentrate on something so tedious

I'm doing "object oriented programming" and before it I had to do "problem solving and programming" - 2 of the intro IT subjects I have to do to go on to the far more interesting sounding "computational arts" course - but I am seriously having doubts

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Post by djadonis206 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:46 pm

right there with you Forge but we do mostly hands-on stuff in school plus I'm pretty driven

I'll sit through a mute persons lecture on snails if I have to to get my degree though

I finish at the community college this spring and I'm going to a 4 year to finish the final 2 years in the fall

I'm barely even taking programming classes - mostly math, stats and physics and Java (which is programming but it's for engineers CSC142)

there's just too much money up here in Seattle to sleep on it - you should move to Seattle dawg


anywayz, stick with it - it'll be worth it in like 3 years when you're ballin

all the IT programming jobs want that BS or BA - throw in a Cisco or Database certification and you'll ball super hard

maybe, just maybe Paris will notice me...the music thing didn't work to get her attention - but a Computer Science degree will surely get me entry into her Vegim

stick with it

peace
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forge
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Post by forge » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:51 pm

djadonis206 wrote:right there with you Forge but we do mostly hands-on stuff in school plus I'm pretty driven

I'll sit through a mute persons lecture on snails if I have to to get my degree though

I finish at the community college this spring and I'm going to a 4 year to finish the final 2 years in the fall

I'm barely even taking programming classes - mostly math, stats and physics and Java (which is programming but it's for engineers CSC142)

there's just too much money up here in Seattle to sleep on it - you should move to Seattle dawg


anywayz, stick with it - it'll be worth it in like 3 years when you're ballin

all the IT programming jobs want that BS or BA - throw in a Cisco or Database certification and you'll ball super hard

maybe, just maybe Paris will notice me...the music thing didn't work to get her attention - but a Computer Science degree will surely get me entry into her Vegim

stick with it

peace
man you're right in there with a full IT thing! I thought you were doing web design or something

Nah I dont want an IT career - where I'm interested is where it intersects with music technology - "computational arts" they call it

I'm even still thinking twice about that after this unit

mdk
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Post by mdk » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:05 pm

just stick with it.

OOP is actually quite interesting when you get into it but the theory is pretty much meaningless until you start writing some actual programs and experiencing how to solve problems in an OO way.

for me the key to any piece of learning is to give myself something practical to do.

i dont know what languages youre being taught but you should try doing some flash actionscript (as3 preferably) or maybe something like processing.

theyre both good for doing arty stuff and learning more about programming.
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forge
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Post by forge » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:10 pm

mdk wrote:just stick with it OOP is actually quite interesting when you get into it.

for me the key to any piece of learning is to give myself something practical to do.

i dont know what languages youre being taught but you should try doing some flash actionscript (as3 preferably) or maybe something like processing.

theyre both good for doing arty stuff and learning more about programming.
in this unit it's C#

the last one was scheme and for the computational arts sub-major they are using a program called 'Impromptu" which is based around scheme

I actually really enjoyed the Scheme unit and I really put it alot down to the Lecturers and tutors

this unit is big, fast paced, impersonal, and bless her the lecturer is just not that interesting to listen to, and the prac sessions are in huge rooms and the tutors just wander around waiting for you to ask questions
totally uninspiring and such a contrast to the first unit

yeah I'll have to really push myself, but at this stage I'm really wondering how I'll pass

Jeroen
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Post by Jeroen » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:27 pm

If you are not enjoying it it is not a good sign. If you not enjoying it now you will not enjoy it in the future.

Try to find something that really interests you and then see whether you can benefit from being a good programmer. If tax doesnt make you tick, maybe learn to program Digital Signal Processing. It's all based on the same principles.

Hope this helps,

J.
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Khazul
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Re: all you IT degree types - how do you do it??

Post by Khazul » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:44 pm

forge wrote:I dont think I've ever encountered anything as mind numbing as listening to an uninspiring IT lecturer talk about programming - not doing it, talking about it.
Well now you know why alot of IT people are boring no-life saddos. Anyway - sleep though it - at the end of the day, you will probbaly end up writing glue code for web apps, and lets but honest here - most IT enterprise programming aint rocket science.

(For the proper hard-core product developers around here - I dont count you among the lame IT enterprise programmers.)


Oh and if you aint enjoying it, then you will end up being a crap programmer and eventually become one of those pain in the ass incompetants with a comp-sci degree who think he knows what hes doing, but cant program for shit so becomes a manage and start funcing up the lives of every real programmer who crosses his path.

If thats you - please please - find something else to do or just jump in front of a bus.
Nothing to see here - move along!

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:48 pm

forge wrote:
man you're right in there with a full IT thing! I thought you were doing web design or something

Nah I don't want an IT career - where I'm interested is where it intersects with music technology - "computational arts" they call it

I'm even still thinking twice about that after this unit
Yeah man, I'm full blown programming - after one class of web design I learnt quickly "design" is not for me - I'd rather be on the back end of things building programs

to be honest I'd love to work for Adobe working on the Audition team (I played golf this summer with someone who works there - good contact) <---> actually I played golf with a lot of programmers (crappy golfers but good contacts) this summer - but we have Microsoft out here as well and my long time girl friends brother is a project manager on the Small Business Web team and that sounds pretty chill as well

who knows right? But I'm way into Math and that kind of stuff - reading actual words and research is retarded in my opinion - problem solving and logical thinking is more up my alley so - may the force be with me

right now I'm looking for a internship or part-time job so I've been trying to do as much networking (talking to people, meeting people) as I can - school will get your foot in the door but it's the actual hands on experience that gets you paid - hence the internship


good luck playa
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Khazul
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Post by Khazul » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:55 pm

sweetjesus wrote:i learnt programming on pen and paper before i had a computer (not joking).
I used to write assembler like that - I rarely had access to a computer, so had to write and prove most of my code on paper to make the bests of the time when I had access to computer or cpu boards.

Actually turned out ot be a really good discipline for later life as you think way more carefully about what you do and I think it makes you a much better programmer as a result.

While the new edit and run tools are cool - they do seem to result in very thoughtless and to be honest - really really crap trail-and-error type code, with little though of error handling, unusual cases etc and of course make you completely hopeless as an embedded programmer.
Nothing to see here - move along!

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