BT Talks about MIDI timing inaccuracies...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
forge
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Post by forge » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:24 am

Machinate wrote:obviously midi timing isn't inaccurate as long as it stays in the box. But as soon as you start to use hardware midi it really does become a factor - anyone remember the day where they used to delay everything but the kick drum to make sure the timing was right? Ahhhh, I miss hardware samplers... NOT!
yeah that's what I think of everytime people start talking fondly of the hardware days - I think they must have forgotten all the pain and misery and hours wasted and cables everywhere, and hum, and sync issues, and fixing it all via a tiny stupid LCD.. and ...and....well I dont miss it at all!

hardware shmardware :wink:

Vertical
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Post by Vertical » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:56 am

I know electronic music is a different animal from live playing, but I wonder how many samples on average two world class musicians are off if asked to play 8th notes together at 120bpm for 1 minute.

nolus
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Post by nolus » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:00 pm

There is so much BS talked about this topic. If the internal timing of a sequencer is bad it has absolutely *nothing* to do with MIDI.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:11 pm

Vertical wrote:I know electronic music is a different animal from live playing, but I wonder how many samples on average two world class musicians are off if asked to play 8th notes together at 120bpm for 1 minute.
that's what I thought.

I remember watching a lot of those "classic albums" documentaries about the making of Fleetwood mac - rumors , and Deep Purple , that sort of thing. You know million sellers.
I know those musicians were tight - but I bet they had >300ms of jitter.
Especially with all that coke they did. So anyway - I think that, even with the fluctuations of midi, I bet sixty bars of 16th beats is tighter now than at any time in history.

Even when i used to sync my analogue drum machines to a cassette tape with bleeps on one channel, the crowd loved it, despite the way the machines tended to lose a beat and drift like mad .. requiring a manual 'intervention'. No one really cared.
Midi isn't great, but using it is still better than listening to me try and play 'on beat' for 6 minutes.

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:15 pm

Machinate wrote:rikhyray, coming on here and calling people pathetic and bitter doesn't make you seem as professional as you think you are. People lashing out towards BT because of his image is one thing, you lashing out against other forum users is another.

Be. Nice.
Be nice ? I think it is exactly opposite, lashing a public person, mentioning his artistic name is wrong, hiding under forum alias does not give licence to write rubbish about others, trying to ridicule them in the lowest way.

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:21 pm

rikhyray wrote:
Machinate wrote:rikhyray, coming on here and calling people pathetic and bitter doesn't make you seem as professional as you think you are. People lashing out towards BT because of his image is one thing, you lashing out against other forum users is another.

Be. Nice.
Be nice ? I think it is exactly opposite, lashing a public person, mentioning his artistic name is wrong, hiding under forum alias does not give licence to write rubbish about others, trying to ridicule them in the lowest way.
That's exactly what you're doing, too! Neither SweetJesus nor you are being particularly anonymous here. I'm just asking you to save your arrogance for face-to-face confrontations. At least SweetJesus was being humorous about it. You're just being bitter.

smartass303
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Post by smartass303 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:25 pm

its sO ON !!!!!

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:55 pm

Machinate wrote:
rikhyray wrote:
Machinate wrote:rikhyray, coming on here and calling people pathetic and bitter doesn't make you seem as professional as you think you are. People lashing out towards BT because of his image is one thing, you lashing out against other forum users is another.

Be. Nice.
Be nice ? I think it is exactly opposite, lashing a public person, mentioning his artistic name is wrong, hiding under forum alias does not give licence to write rubbish about others, trying to ridicule them in the lowest way.
That's exactly what you're doing, too! Neither SweetJesus nor you are being particularly anonymous here. I'm just asking you to save your arrogance for face-to-face confrontations. At least SweetJesus was being humorous about it. You're just being bitter.
Bitter ? arrogance ? arent you spinning your imagination here ? Have nothing against SJ, neither you, in fact if it came from some forum clown I wouldn't bother, so it is my respect, though sounds like a paradox, that made me respond, I have right to write what I feel, SJ has right to write what I considered ugly and you find funny , and BT has right to sport his gay hair style, freedom of speech and tolerance, which covers also when you, SJ , myself mis interpret, over react or whatever to others writing - that what makes us different from Taliban

The point is, in the end we all profit from someone with that kind of position in the industry as BT, speaking openly what we all know- midi is obsolete- comes form another era of technology, it was never really great concept, worked according to tech standard of the day and no one ever expected that it would live that long. It is like auto industry would stick to use wooden wheels which were OK for 5 miles/h
Setting standards is complicated, just see the DVD situation these days, it is really pity that the major companies were not able to sit together and work it out.

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:57 pm

rikhyray wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:semi true .. but hey it hasnt stopped hundreds of thousands of musiciands for close to 3 decades.

maybe bt plays at a different groove quantize if his hair is cut at a slightly different angle and thus changing the whole way he has to approach his album writing style..
I think everyone knows BT is very good musician who looks, behaves silly, immature, thinking he makes himself look cool. it is his problem but how better is your comment ?
I just see somebody bitter, full of complexes for lack public recognition, envious about someones else success,
trying to make himself taller by cutting heads of others,, hair in this case.
I am no BTs friend, neither fan but it is pathetic how low you go in your comment. I hope for you , you were drunk or too tired.
Regarding the midi matter, there is nothing "semi true " about it, whoever does not know, see, hear it and take into consideration while producing, needs some serious studies. He is emotional about it, his right to feel say what he wants, most people simply live with it, what else can we do except using all possible ways to correct, rectify.
If someone thinks it applies only to old school hardware-wrong, it is even worse with computers, and Live midi is worse then of nearly any apps. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason was frustration of the developers to be forced to work on something so ridiculously obsolete, Perhaps when Ableton started, everyone though by 2005 midi will be dead, it must be frustrating for any intelligent developer to be forced to work with this pathetic protocol, it is against all they studied and common sense as well.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&clie ... tnG=Search

nolus
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Post by nolus » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:00 pm

rikhyray wrote: it was never really great concept.
care to justify that remark?
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:28 pm

this really is a great thread about midi timing.

:roll:

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:30 pm

Angstrom wrote:this really is a great thread about midi timing.

:roll:
yeah, well your timing's lousy!

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:33 pm

did I mention that you are gay?

etc ...

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:35 pm

ya mother wears army boots!

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:37 pm

and your father has a jitter of at least 300ms and serious latency issues on his 'in port'

Image


can we go back to talking nerdy yet?

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