Analog - CPU?? scaled down version + LFO plug-in??

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forge
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Analog - CPU?? scaled down version + LFO plug-in??

Post by forge » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:50 am

I've been using Analog a fair bit today - does anyone else think it's quite a power hungry beast?

I also find the envelopes quite strange - I was trying way too hard to get a quickly decaying filter envelope like a laser zap synth bass sound - then I loaded up operator and got the envelope right straight away, but I wanted an analog sound - like I used to do in Pro-53

I actually think I would have prefered just the oscilator as a single simple plug-in, and an envelope ADSR plug-in or addition to auto-filter, (as well as the formant filters), and also an LFO plug-in

I dont find Analog anywhere near as intuitive as I;d hoped to get the sound I'm after

I really think Live needs to ship with a sound generator of some kind, and a scaled down version of the oscillators in Analog would be perfect - literally a plug-in that is just the OSC section or something

I think the way Live has gone with racks etc it would make far more sense to build your own rack with as many oscillators as you like and add your own LFO plug-ins and Envelope plug in (or I guess and envelope for the amplitude of the OSC - but I've requested a simple ADSR plug-in before and would love one) and a proper envelope in autofilter - like a button to go into envelope mode or something

I guess this shoud go in Featiure requests

Jeroen
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Post by Jeroen » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:43 pm

Well yes,

I tried using it in beta 10 with my mac pro 4 GB and I got spikes above 100% and glitches on some sounds and two instances were impossible.

I know I use quite a small audio buffer (256 or 512 samples), but normally this does not give me any problems.

I posted this in the Beta forum , but got no reply.

I cannot see the purpose of having presets which give this kind of CPU load on my machine. How would it be on a standard dual core?

My guess is there is still something not right ...
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udp
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Post by udp » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:24 pm

I dunno. I like Analogue so far. I'm finding that I can easily put together sounds I like. I'm going for the out of tune warm Boards of Canada type sounds. I've always been able to get this sort of thing out of Operator as well. I think the key, like Operator is in the routing. I agree that the layout isn't quite as obvious as Operator. Haven't noticed exceptional CPU usage. I like the ability to control the length of time for the sustain, thats nice. To each his own I guess.
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forge
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Post by forge » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:47 pm

udp wrote:I dunno. I like Analogue so far. I'm finding that I can easily put together sounds I like. I'm going for the out of tune warm Boards of Canada type sounds. I've always been able to get this sort of thing out of Operator as well. I think the key, like Operator is in the routing. I agree that the layout isn't quite as obvious as Operator. Haven't noticed exceptional CPU usage. I like the ability to control the length of time for the sustain, thats nice. To each his own I guess.
yeah I guess it's the envelope setup I'm not sure about - I kind of feel like I'd like it to more uniformly fit with the existing instruments

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Post by udp » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:13 pm

forge wrote:
udp wrote:I dunno. I like Analogue so far. I'm finding that I can easily put together sounds I like. I'm going for the out of tune warm Boards of Canada type sounds. I've always been able to get this sort of thing out of Operator as well. I think the key, like Operator is in the routing. I agree that the layout isn't quite as obvious as Operator. Haven't noticed exceptional CPU usage. I like the ability to control the length of time for the sustain, thats nice. To each his own I guess.
yeah I guess it's the envelope setup I'm not sure about - I kind of feel like I'd like it to more uniformly fit with the existing instruments
Do you mean the exponential envelope option? I'd actually like to see the Analogue envelope find its way into Operator...maybe. It seems more flexible, but I'll confess to not having used it enough to be sure.
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forge
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Post by forge » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:24 pm

udp wrote:
forge wrote:
udp wrote:I dunno. I like Analogue so far. I'm finding that I can easily put together sounds I like. I'm going for the out of tune warm Boards of Canada type sounds. I've always been able to get this sort of thing out of Operator as well. I think the key, like Operator is in the routing. I agree that the layout isn't quite as obvious as Operator. Haven't noticed exceptional CPU usage. I like the ability to control the length of time for the sustain, thats nice. To each his own I guess.
yeah I guess it's the envelope setup I'm not sure about - I kind of feel like I'd like it to more uniformly fit with the existing instruments
Do you mean the exponential envelope option? I'd actually like to see the Analogue envelope find its way into Operator...maybe. It seems more flexible, but I'll confess to not having used it enough to be sure.
I dont know - I'm going to play with it some more - but I was finding i just couldnt easily get the envelope I was after which seemed really odd

and the way the envelope control goes to +/-16 is a bit weird - it's just a number I know but it feels more natural to have the %100 in the Ableton instruments

it just takes getting used to I guess - I've barely had any time to play with the instruments really but I didnt think it should have taken me as long as it did to find what is an obvious analog sounding filter envelope I would think - it really was the most basic sound with just one Osc I was after and I was stuffing about for ages

tomorrow I might try some examples and post something more specific
Last edited by forge on Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:27 pm

Jeroen, Ableton has comfirmed the bug with more than two instances on OSX, being fixed now. I'm running into this too, so it's hard for me to say how CPU hungry Analog really is.

I do find it kinda hard to program as well, always needing to click on a synth section before you can edit it's envelopes for instance, just takes awhile to dial in a sound versus having all the controls in one larger GUI. And the parameters in that center section are very small on any modern LCD screen, I have to use OSX's zoom function all the time to really see what I'm doing. It sounds great IMO, I'm just not a huge fan of the whole synth layouts Ableton seems to be adopting. I'd rather have the GUI open in it's own pane and show me all the parameters at once, like other 3rd party plug ins. Sorry.

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Post by Jeroen » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:54 pm

Agree with Tarekith. Trying to get alll synth parameters in a single small instrument box is too ambitious.
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Post by R.J.Dubya » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:22 pm

I agree with a lot of this. I may upgrade to the suite, but I don't think I'll ever use analog. The cpu is reasonable as a mono synth, but polyphony drives heavier than anything I've seen. Seriously, play any of the presets in the pad folder. Hold a four or five note chord, play a few changes, the cpu reads over 40% very often. Spacepad for example eats 55% with one chord on my MBP. Hmm, half of one processor to hold a synth pad. No thanks. I just don't think a synth should even be able to get that cpu costly. Ill just stick to the 5% pro-53 gives me, or the 10% absynth takes for a typical complex pad.

And the multiple window thing, ya it's a bit annoying to have to click on tabs to see anything rather than get to see everything at once, but same thing for operator and sampler really. I'm thinking I prefer the full window myself.
You got some good ideas there forge. Here's another one. You know how you can hit the tab in sampler to view the sample zone layout, or with the spectrum analyzer, how it can extend to a big part of the screen right? Well how about if ableton's synths had a similar unfold button, where more parameters could be viewed at once, in a box right on top where the spectrum graph unfolds too? I think that would make for better editing when you need to adjust a lot of parameters at once. It could essentially stay as is, with many pages/tabs, but one extra unfold button to see more at once. Worth requesting for Live 8 maybe?

cheers,

rjw
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Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:33 pm

R.J.Dubya wrote: You know how you can hit the tab in sampler to view the sample zone layout, or with the spectrum analyzer, how it can extend to a big part of the screen right? Well how about if ableton's synths had a similar unfold button, where more parameters could be viewed at once, in a box right on top where the spectrum graph unfolds too? I think that would make for better editing when you need to adjust a lot of parameters at once. It could essentially stay as is, with many pages/tabs, but one extra unfold button to see more at once. Worth requesting for Live 8 maybe?
thats actually one of the best ideas I've heard in a while for live. that and the lfo's that we should already have (god damnit)
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Post by Poster » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:08 pm

R.J.Dubya wrote:I agree with a lot of this. I may upgrade to the suite, but I don't think I'll ever use analog. The cpu is reasonable as a mono synth, but polyphony drives heavier than anything I've seen. Seriously, play any of the presets in the pad folder. Hold a four or five note chord, play a few changes, the cpu reads over 40% very often. Spacepad for example eats 55% with one chord on my MBP. Hmm, half of one processor to hold a synth pad. No thanks. I just don't think a synth should even be able to get that cpu costly. Ill just stick to the 5% pro-53 gives me, or the 10% absynth takes for a typical complex pad.
I think you cannot judge CPU consumption at this stage (beta)..
Analog is still worked on because there seems to be something wrong thus eating too much CPU..
R.J.Dubya wrote:And the multiple window thing, ya it's a bit annoying to have to click on tabs to see anything rather than get to see everything at once, but same thing for operator and sampler really. I'm thinking I prefer the full window myself.
You got some good ideas there forge. Here's another one. You know how you can hit the tab in sampler to view the sample zone layout, or with the spectrum analyzer, how it can extend to a big part of the screen right? Well how about if ableton's synths had a similar unfold button, where more parameters could be viewed at once, in a box right on top where the spectrum graph unfolds too? I think that would make for better editing when you need to adjust a lot of parameters at once. It could essentially stay as is, with many pages/tabs, but one extra unfold button to see more at once. Worth requesting for Live 8 maybe?

cheers,

rjw
Allthough that idea might look tempting, on 2nd thought it's rather delicate..
That would totally undermine the device lane; make it obsolete even..
It would also turn the design of the instruments obsolete cause why even bother with a small device when you can have it big?
And it would eat double space: in the device lane and in the collapsed window..

Point is; I think the device lane and all instruments need an overhaul when you want to have it bigger..
So not only a couple of instruments..
The racks chain list for instance needs more space as well..

Live is expanding, the device lane get's too small..
very challenging task..

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Post by R.J.Dubya » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:12 pm

Poster wrote:
R.J.Dubya wrote:I agree with a lot of this. I may upgrade to the suite, but I don't think I'll ever use analog. The cpu is reasonable as a mono synth, but polyphony drives heavier than anything I've seen. Seriously, play any of the presets in the pad folder. Hold a four or five note chord, play a few changes, the cpu reads over 40% very often. Spacepad for example eats 55% with one chord on my MBP. Hmm, half of one processor to hold a synth pad. No thanks. I just don't think a synth should even be able to get that cpu costly. Ill just stick to the 5% pro-53 gives me, or the 10% absynth takes for a typical complex pad.
I think you cannot judge CPU consumption at this stage (beta)..
Analog is still worked on because there seems to be something wrong thus eating too much CPU..
R.J.Dubya wrote:And the multiple window thing, ya it's a bit annoying to have to click on tabs to see anything rather than get to see everything at once, but same thing for operator and sampler really. I'm thinking I prefer the full window myself.
You got some good ideas there forge. Here's another one. You know how you can hit the tab in sampler to view the sample zone layout, or with the spectrum analyzer, how it can extend to a big part of the screen right? Well how about if ableton's synths had a similar unfold button, where more parameters could be viewed at once, in a box right on top where the spectrum graph unfolds too? I think that would make for better editing when you need to adjust a lot of parameters at once. It could essentially stay as is, with many pages/tabs, but one extra unfold button to see more at once. Worth requesting for Live 8 maybe?

cheers,

rjw
Allthough that idea might look tempting, on 2nd thought it's rather delicate..
That would totally undermine the device lane; make it obsolete even..
It would also turn the design of the instruments obsolete cause why even bother with a small device when you can have it big?

Point is; I think the device lane and all instruments need an overhaul when you want to have it bigger..
So not only a couple of instruments..
The racks chain list for instance needs more space as well..

Live is expanding, the device lane get's too small..
very challenging task..
I don't think it would mean a complete redesign at all. I think it should stay how it is, but just have an extra view which has all the modulations/envelopes accessible. It would just be a GUI addition in exactly the same style as the sample zones unfold for sampler. And as is the case with samler/spectrum, the rest of the device lane would stay the same.
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Post by MarkH » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:19 pm

I haven't tried the beta of Live 7. Analog has tabs? The screenshot on the Ableton site doesn't show this.

Image

Is there an updated screenshot someone can post? Thanks.
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Post by Tarekith » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:22 pm

I was thinking about the fold out button as well for the synths, and I definitely think Operator and Sampler suffer fromt his too. Anyway, if the device is 'closed', it looks like it currently does, but you should be able to unfold it for producing. The device lane is already obsolete if you ask me, with everything getting packed into drum racks and instrument racks, editing ANYTHING means a LOT of horizontal scrolling these days.

It was very neat and tidy when we were only using a few effects back in version 5 and previous, but now I think it's a methodology that's incredibly clumsy.

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Post by Tarekith » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:22 pm

MarkH wrote:I haven't tried the beta of Live 7. Analog has tabs? The screenshot on the Ableton site doesn't show this.

Image

Is there an updated screenshot someone can post? Thanks.
No, but you have to click in each dark grey section to show the extended controls for that section in the middle pane, just like Operator.

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