midi automation and realtime effects manipulation

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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feral

midi automation and realtime effects manipulation

Post by feral » Sat May 15, 2004 4:38 am

I think I know the answer to this question, but I just want to make sure:

I'm using an fcb1010 foot controller with Live which is great for recording guitar loops live: I can link up the expression pedals to any fx plugin parameters I want, and then I can manipulate them real-time while recording. *However*, there's no way to record that midi automation, is there? Coupled with the fact that Live records everything dry, that means any real-time manipulation of effects is lost when I replay that clip.

The only thing I guess I could do is route the signal through sends to record the tracks wet, but it's a lot of hassle. Anyone have any other solutions?

thx

Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Sat May 15, 2004 7:48 am

You absolutely CAN record that MIDI Automation....

All you really have to do is click on LIVE's record button, and any and all automation you send to it 9either by MIDI or by mousing)
will be recorded.

Try it. Hit the record switch in the transport bar at the top of the page. If you're in Session View to trigger clips etc, hit record and all currently-playing clips will "print" to the Arrange View.

Then, if you expand the view of each track in Arrange [click the circle with a triangle in it next to the track number] you can select by the flip menu wich type of automation to edit "after the fact".

Hope this helps

p
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feral

ah yes...

Post by feral » Sat May 15, 2004 11:32 am

...but I guess what I was hoping for was that the automation would be recorded with the clip, so that it would be automatically looped: does that make sense? I use Live for live looping, so I can't really use the arrange view...

Per Boysen
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Post by Per Boysen » Sat May 15, 2004 1:20 pm

I too have been missng that in Live. The funny thing is that more than half of it is already there in Live 3x today. I'm speaking about those Clip Envelopes. Imagine if Clip Envelopes also could be addresse by midi learn from external controllers. By unlinking Region/Loop you would in fact get a "midi loop" that could be longer or the same lenght as the audio clip, and that would hole all your precious effect tweaking.

Can we hope for "external midi learn for sample parameters and clip envelopes".

Is that's what Plastikman got? ;-) ...nuff said - I'm out.
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
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Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 15, 2004 1:23 pm

still won't help (yet) , but you can draw in automation to the clip envelope view at the bottom of the screen. As a fellow live looper, I anticipate the "draw"--what good does that do me live? response. I hear ya. I'm lobbying for midi control of clip properties, and maybe even a second soemwhat "global" record button--this button would enable recording of all effect/volume/... tweaks to a clip. Hitting this button would be kind-of like hitting the global record button to record automation in the arrange view, but instead it would record any automation you apply to clips that are playing. Or course, the pre-requisite for this is midi control of clip properties--ABLETON?

Ryan

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 15, 2004 1:25 pm

per--you and I said close to the same thing at the same time! Should we start this thread in the feature wishlist forum--midi mappable clip properties and a midi clip automation record button--crucial for live perfromance. One step closer to overdub/resample--at least we could record session effects tweaks in real-time.

Ryan

Per Boysen
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Post by Per Boysen » Sat May 15, 2004 1:57 pm

Sure! Can't be whished too many times ;-) Very imporant whish that will make Live more unique as a live performance tool. Thinking about competing software out there...
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
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radder
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Post by radder » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:20 pm

I recently got back into trying to "relearn" Live 4... and was startled to find out that what you're talking about isn't possible. Quite saddening for me actually. Here's hoping it gets fixed?? Anyone know if Live 5 solves this?
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Per Boysen
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Post by Per Boysen » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:51 pm

Some sample parameters in Live 5 can be addressed by MIDI learn. But they then work only for the selected track. This is said to be due to some problems with the code that doesn't permit it to be fully addressable.

One example is pitch tranpsose. You can map it to a MIDI controller, but only the clip playing on the selected track will be transposed. I tried to create MIDI clips to control this function, so that I would have a clip that will transpose two semi tones, three etc etc. But sadly it came out as too flaky. The pitch transposes differently from time to time - although the MIDI clips sends acurate data. The bottomline is this transpose is bound to sound out of key if used for musical means. It seems more suited to pitch sweep effects of looping audio clips. That's cool too, but not what I need.

There is also this moving of a sample's start point and loop point that can be mapped to external MIDI. I guess this is too restricte to the selected track.
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
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kineticUk
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Please post your views on the NRPN support thread

Post by kineticUk » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:56 am

I have put a post up on the Feature wishlist about this subject.
I am having trouble with the fact that live doesnt recognise certain data sent by controllers so you cannot record filter sweeps into clips as in say Cubase and other types of automation if the device uses certain messages eg NRPN.
Seeing as we want to be live to be a fully compatible DAW as well as performance based program, with better midi support we can all enjoy the best of both worlds.
I would like to use live with all my equipment at gigs as a controller 4 my drum machines samplers triton etc but until they support all midi types it isnt possible.
Check out the post FULL NRPN SUPPORT in feature wishlist and express your views there if you can hopefully ableton will take notice and consider updating live in the future.

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