why is the note mapping in drum machines so weird?

dbone · Post by **dbone** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:50 am

Amaury wrote: If I understand well, you want one chain per element (kick, snare etc..), and different samples per element, velocity dependent?

By default, that chain would receive C1, and output C3, which will play the Kick samples at original pitch, if you play a C1 on the keyboard. ... Load the samples in the Instrument Rack, each in a Simpler, each on a different chain, and set the velocity ranges in the Instrument Rack.

Fianlly got some time to sit down and work a little. If I understand what you are suggesting, it would be that the sample to be played back is dependant on velocity, correct?

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:23 am

dbone wrote:
Amaury wrote: If I understand well, you want one chain per element (kick, snare etc..), and different samples per element, velocity dependent?

By default, that chain would receive C1, and output C3, which will play the Kick samples at original pitch, if you play a C1 on the keyboard. ... Load the samples in the Instrument Rack, each in a Simpler, each on a different chain, and set the velocity ranges in the Instrument Rack.
Fianlly got some time to sit down and work a little. If I understand what you are suggesting, it would be that the sample to be played back is dependant on velocity, correct?

I'm not sure I understand the question well.. A sample is velocity dependent as long as it is put in a device (either Simpler or Sampler, or any third party sampler that has this feature), and that device is set to be velocity dependent.

In the example I gave, you'd set a Simpler per chain, and set velocity ranges per chain, so that one chain would play at a time. Now, if you want the volume of each Simpler to be dependent on the played velocity, set the Vel parameter to 100%.

Regards,
Amaury

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:03 pm

I just want to drop a quick note. I also agree that the note mapping in Drum Machines is really weird. It would be a lot more useful if they were configured in nice neat blocks at the same place within the drum rack.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:09 pm

icedsushi wrote:I just want to drop a quick note. I also agree that the note mapping in Drum Machines is really weird. It would be a lot more useful if they were configured in nice neat blocks at the same place within the drum rack.

but you've picked up that they're arranged according to the General Midi (GM) standard and can be moved around by hand, right?

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:15 pm

Yep, but I still think it's weird.

So how many people out there using padKontrol, TriggerFinger, MPC, etc as their drum controller? Can we have a raise of hands...80% maybe?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:20 pm

or even, how many people use GM drum mapping, none? 1%, 5% at most?

I plan on making 2 versions of each, the GM mapping is just hard to come up with to begin with, no need to blow it away. I think it was a neat idea by Ableton but it's in favor of a few users while confusing most of us.

easy enough to fix, IMO, but my workaround mentality doesn't fly with everyone.

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:23 pm

What's your workaround? Are you going to resort them?

How about just dragging them to different pads all next to each other and then saving the .als song? Seems simple enough, as long as that doesn't mess anything up...

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:24 pm

drag them around then save the preset.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:37 pm

Dragging them around only works for some of the pads though, the ones set to ALL for their input. The ones with specialized note ranges no longer work correctly with the GM spec (ie, for drum midi files), and that's one reason I asked Ableton "Why are some of them not mapped with ALL for the note input". Still no word on that. Which of course brought up my next question, if the ones mapped to all retain their note # mappings, HOW are they doing this. Amaury tried to explain, but to be honest, his answer didn't make any sense to me. So my questions still stand I guess:

- Why are some Drum Pads not set to ALL for their input?

- For the ones that are, what is it that determines what notes trigger these pads? IT's not Drum Pad location, or controlled via the Simpler or Sampler in the racks, unless those settings have been hidden from us. There's no note ranges we can access in Drum Racks, so?????

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:41 pm

ahhh right on, thanks for that.

TBH my SL has been packed up 'cause I just moved (I'm sure you can relate) and I haven't had time for Live lately, been holding out until the end of the week for Xmas vacation when I can seriously unpack. anyway, I am a bit slow on this issue but this makes me want to find the damn box I stuffed it into.

I don't think it'd violate Abe's license if users came up with proper, sane mapping and posted them. maybe the Covert Operators could host?

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:56 am

Apologies for not following / reading the whole discussion here..

And for throwing this out there without having a look and experimenting first..

I'm wondering if it is possible to create a "wrapper" rack for a Drum Machines kit, with an appropriate number of chains with scale plugs to translate the offending mapping schemes into a contiguous block of notes, so that the pads are all together.

??

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:02 am

Tarekith wrote:
- Why are some Drum Pads not set to ALL for their input?

Also, let me just throw this out there - sorry if it is pedantic rather than helpful

from that quote, I would remind everyone to not confuse what a pad is / does.

A pad is more like a shortcut to the sound which is assigned to play on a given note, based on the devices within the chains in the rack and their settings

i.e. the _pad_ does not have an input. It is a reflection of the I/O settings of the chains in the rack

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:08 am

Fine, why are some chains set to ALL and some to specific note ranges?

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:17 am

OK

Felt guilty for not at least having a quick look at a Drum Machines Kit

As a first take on why some chains are set to pass all notes, and others not,

Since choke groups are not active on chains which are set to 'all', that is why the hi-hats in the kit I'm looking at (606 Body Electric) are set to individual notes.

So the proper question is "why are some chains set to 'all' " rather than "why are some chains not set to 'all' "

If you dig into the rack structure and look at the I/O mappings of all the sub-racks, you can see how the particular notes eventually get represented on the pads which they do.

Even if a top-level chain is passing all notes, the sub-rack will typically be set to a particular input note, and _that_ note is the one which ends up being displayed as a pad.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:18 am

hehe, now _there's_ the proper question

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