why is the note mapping in drum machines so weird?
found more weirdness - really dont know if it's deliberate or a bug
I had a drum rack containing 1 sample assigned to C1 then 3 drum racks set to all - I then dragged another sample to the chain list instead of the pad view and instead of it being added to C2 it went to C1 and C1 became 'multi'
before
after
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=
I had a drum rack containing 1 sample assigned to C1 then 3 drum racks set to all - I then dragged another sample to the chain list instead of the pad view and instead of it being added to C2 it went to C1 and C1 became 'multi'
before
after
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=
I just came across it - not sure if it's a buglongjohns wrote:Why not drag it to the pad, if you want a particular note assignment?
I could imagine though that if you had a pretty full rack there would be a case where you'd want to drag to the chain list view and have Live automatically take the next free slot
the thing I'm not sure about is whether it is intended behaviour and there is some actual reason for it that I just havent thought of
Re: Very confusing?
Thats the standard GM mappng for open and close HH (pedal HH is G#1). The only way your goingh to get exclusive behaviour (ie hitting closed kills the open sound and visa versa) between open and close is by sticking them together which means giving them their own notes.Tarekith wrote:Also, say I load up the 808 Classic kit, the HH samples are set to F#1 and A#1 instead of all, why? Just curious why some cells aren't set to All?
TBH - I dohnt know why the hell it doesnt just simply follow and stick with the usual GM drum kits mappings - all my hardware gear does - which is great - if I want to play my MPC from my roland drum kit - it just works - zero hassle.
Nothing to see here - move along!
ok more confusion....
if you drag a pad within the drum rack holding ALT, thereby creating a new nested drum rack containing that sample, then I would expect if you drag another sample to the newly created nested rack then it would occupy the same pad (that would be the point of creating that nested drum rack right?) well what actually happens is the new sample you drag is automatically assigned to the next free MIDI note/pad - not the way I think it should behave at all
if you drag a pad within the drum rack holding ALT, thereby creating a new nested drum rack containing that sample, then I would expect if you drag another sample to the newly created nested rack then it would occupy the same pad (that would be the point of creating that nested drum rack right?) well what actually happens is the new sample you drag is automatically assigned to the next free MIDI note/pad - not the way I think it should behave at all
Good luck man, I have up on the drum machines myself. Far easier to just use my own samples versus sorting out that constant scrolling mess
tarekith
https://tarekith.com
https://tarekith.com
Have no fear! I'm almost done re-doing the classic drum machines with the hits as instrument racks within the drum racks, and all on one 4x4 page. I did most of them last night.
I'll be happy to post the new presets when I'm done. That's ok with ableton right? I wouldn't post samples, so only those who have purchased it will be able to have the preset find the samples right?
I really like how I've set it up now. I've maintained the GM map of the hits that were on the first page, and then filled in the rest of the pads with the hits that you used to have to scroll for, in a logical manner. Another nice benefit of the hits being instrument now (other than hotswapping working) is that every little play button (to audition the sound) is available when you fold out the in-line drum mixer, where as before none of the ones set to receive "all" had them on the mixer.
I'll be happy to post the new presets when I'm done. That's ok with ableton right? I wouldn't post samples, so only those who have purchased it will be able to have the preset find the samples right?
I really like how I've set it up now. I've maintained the GM map of the hits that were on the first page, and then filled in the rest of the pads with the hits that you used to have to scroll for, in a logical manner. Another nice benefit of the hits being instrument now (other than hotswapping working) is that every little play button (to audition the sound) is available when you fold out the in-line drum mixer, where as before none of the ones set to receive "all" had them on the mixer.
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303 posts as Winston
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Macbook pro C2D 2.16, Firepod, rubber band and a stick.
oh - I actually forgot this thread was for drum machines - I was referring to just drum rack - the example starts with an empty drum rackTarekith wrote:Good luck man, I have up on the drum machines myself. Far easier to just use my own samples versus sorting out that constant scrolling mess
guess I should post that as a seperate bug report
but I'm getting pretty damn sick of bug reports!
Hi Forge,forge wrote:oh - I actually forgot this thread was for drum machines - I was referring to just drum rack - the example starts with an empty drum rackTarekith wrote:Good luck man, I have up on the drum machines myself. Far easier to just use my own samples versus sorting out that constant scrolling mess
guess I should post that as a seperate bug report
but I'm getting pretty damn sick of bug reports!
Don't do it if it hurts!
In your case: dropping a sample into the chain list of any drum rack will always set the newly created chain to a unique mapping (a note, and not "ALL"). Remember, then, that a pad does not represent a chain, nor a device, but a note, only. If you want to layer a sound with an existing sound (be it a single hit or already a rack), ALT drag it onto the pad you want it on. It's far easier to work with pads only.
As for the Drum Machine presets, they should be updated, at least our sound team is aware of your feedback.
Regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team
Good news, thanks for the update.Amaury wrote:
As for the Drum Machine presets, they should be updated, at least our sound team is aware of your feedback.
Regards,
Amaury
tarekith
https://tarekith.com
https://tarekith.com
that's a nice theory, but how can I not? I'm trying to use Live 7, I've gone past the point of no return on most sets, but i still come across as many problems as I did during the testing - so I either ignore it, or I tell you in the hope it gets fixed!Amaury wrote:Hi Forge,
Don't do it if it hurts!
as it stands there are a few I work around daily and havent got around to reporting
No I'm pretty sure the things I'm reporting are bugs - these are not to do with working with drum racks, they are weird behaviours that make no senseAmaury wrote: In your case: dropping a sample into the chain list of any drum rack will always set the newly created chain to a unique mapping (a note, and not "ALL"). Remember, then, that a pad does not represent a chain, nor a device, but a note, only. If you want to layer a sound with an existing sound (be it a single hit or already a rack), ALT drag it onto the pad you want it on. It's far easier to work with pads only.
I fully get the bit about pads being shortcuts etc now
at least the one up the page with the screenshots - it's too unpredictable to be intentional, unless you're all drinking Stefan's weird halucinogenic tea now
the one I just pointed out makes no sense to me at all - what would be the point in adding a drum rack to a pad only to have other chains within it set to recieve on different notes?? surely the default situation in almost all cases would be to have them on the same note???
as for the first point, let me paste a PM conversation I had with Longjohns where we were trying to work it out - (if LJ doesnt mind of course!)
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::Forge wrote:- you know the thread I posted yesterday you replied in about dragging to a chain list in drum rack? - do you have time right now to quickly have a look and see if you can work out if there is a valid reason for it or whether it's a bug?
here's the thread: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 418#609418
I've just been playing around and it looks like it keeps happening until there is a standalone sample at the end and no drum racks
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Longjohns wrote: I think it is probably intentional -
that if you drag to the chain list, it will make no attempt to guess what note you want it to respond to.
I can totally picture Amo saying "Craig, what do you expect in this case? Will the drum rack guess which note you want it set to?"
I'd say what they expect is that
1. you know what note you want, and you will drag to that pad
or
2. you will set the input note for the new chain after creating it
::::::::::::::::::::::::Forge wrote: ha ha - true,that's sounds like Amo! Wink
but the weird thing is that at some point it does actually start following the rule of taking the next free pad
if you do what I did then drag a note to a free pad after all the others (so it's the last one) then drag a sample to the chain list - now it follows the rule
I'm just trying to work out if there is some kind of method to this
::::::::::::::::::::Forge wrote:I'm starting to see a pattern
after steps one and 2 (single sample dragged to C1 followed by multi to D1) if you then drag the drum rack to the top in the chain list, then it works - the next single sample you drag into a chain list takes the next free slot
so it seems drum racks on pads confuse the count somehow - I just wnat to work out if there is any conceivable reason it could be meant to be like that
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Longjohns wrote:I see more what you mean now
It seems to auto-assign for only the top-level drum rack. And only once you're on a roll of adding samples, like you say.
If one of the top chains contains another drum rack, then it can't auto-assign around those notes.
But the top-level rack still gets its pads assigned by all the sub-racks which are set to 'all' at the top level.
Once you're on a roll of adding to the top-level chain list, it starts going up the notes like you say..
But it will still stack on top of an existing note, when it comes to an occupied note assignment (aka pad)
So I guess it does seem kind of buggy!
but I'm not saying it should be set to all - I'm saying it should have the same note as the pad that the drum rack was created onAmaury wrote:Hi Forge,
I was only talking about the very last problem you mentioned: if you drag a sample, to any drum rack's chain list, it will never set the chain to "ALL", ever, regardless how the Rack has been created.
Regards,
Amaury
if you create a nested drum rack using a pad then the most likely reason you are doing it is so you can layer some drum sounds together
so why do any chains added to the chain list view in that rack now start taking the next available pads? there is no pad view in the nested drum rack so it is quite possible to drag to the chain list
I see what you're saying that the intention is just that you will hold ALT and drag to the pad - but I think there are definitely times when you are likely to use the chain list
more to the point it's just neater if the behaviour is still as you would expect
it seems as it is just as if once the PAD view idea was born then the chain list version of drum racks was not finished and these little things are just not working properly