You Want MIDI, I Give You MIDI. . Come with me to the Garden

[Pilgrim]

O.K. then, make it Green Peppers!

Who recognizes where that came from?


I downloaded Live demo to see if it was easier and better than similar implementations in Acid, Sonar, Logic, DP, Divine, Cyclone, etc. (Pro Tools not considered.)

I was curious if EVERYTHING that Live does for everyone else might be useful to me.
I bought Live ASAP!

I am an editor/mixer/producer. My interest comes post tracking and pre-mastering. Sometimes I write/originate phrases. Sometimes I do lots of interesting stuff.

Rewire is as close a connection to MIDI sequencing as I want for Live!

When I opened Live the first time I was absolutely astonished to find that the Arranger section was a very capable audio tracking environment.

Sessions view was a shocker.
That understood, what about MIDI, I asked myself?

Suddenly I realized that Live was almost an exact replica (using audio) of my Yamaha RM1x (using MIDI and a tone generator/effects/sequencer to produce audio).
Any RM1x users out there that know what I mean?

Additionally, Live begs to be MIDI controlled and external MIDI control is drop-dead easy to set up and adjust!

My RM1x is used most often, these days, as a hardware MIDI controller for both software and hardware devices. (Now with Live!)
My RM1x is also my favorite mobile music creation device (MIDI sequencer). It will work on 12 volts and with headphones ANYWHERE.

For those of you who might know why I love my RM1x (Marco!), the RM1x is a high end Yamaha XG device with a different (I’m glad) voice set. The tone generator, effects block and sequencer are absolutely XG.
Yamaha is picky about what has the XG label on the box so, without absolute XG file compatibility, the RM1x is not labeled XG.
If ANY of you have ANY XG gear stuffed away, put an RM1x on its input (with MIDI-OX in between for voice patch conversion) and have a fantastic music creation setup.
(XG devices include most PSR, all MU, all SW and most later QY products by Yamaha, many Korg synths and are usually available used/cheap. GM2 is very close to XG spec. Plays O.K.)

Get this, the RM1x is still in Yamaha’s current product line (not designated as “classic”, yet!) I bought mine in 1996!! That is very unusual longevity!
If you have or can get the RS7000 and want to know my opinion, e-mail me. It can be useful also, but not the same.

If you do not understand XG or do not care, that is very O.K. The XG heritage of the RM1x simply raises the absolute value of the RM1x.

I am offering this post to simply attempt to get YOU thinking (possibly positively) about how to use MIDI sequencing/playing with Live!

I will present only one negative argument for NOT having (in future releases) MIDI tracks in Live!
That is: We would have to learn to use it.

I already know how to use my existing MIDI sequencers. If Ableton wants to do as Acid and allow MIDI tracks with very limited editing/recording capabilities BUT does track project pitch, then fine. (Tempo tracking via MIDI sync is available to any combination already.)

Bottom line, if you have a hardware MIDI sequencer/tone generator or keyboard synth with MIDI sequencer and it is paid for AND you know how to use it, but especially if IT IS PAID FOR, then there is your MIDI for Ableton Live, as well as a controller.

My experience suggests that the RM1x might be easy enough and fit in better than most.

If you hear yourself thinking and/or saying that you want to stay with software PLEASE NOTE:
You gotta have computer space to run it! Why more than Rewire?

To me, Ableton Live combined with my current DAW and recording setup provides me with a good excuse to stop looking at gear/software and do some MUSIC!
I might even not have to use my audio editors much.

Some of you might be able to apply these concepts positively to what you know and what you have.

Ableton, thank you. We are very impressed!

Thanks for reading,
John the Pilgrim A.K.A. FLCracker

[Guest]

From the Garden of Green Peppers (yum!)
My Partner-in-Crime read the initial post and, noting that I recommended considering just about any keyboard synth with a MIDI sequencer as a great tool, asked why I did not mention MY favorite keyboard synth since it is really two keyboards plus software, and extremely useful and unique. Blah. . Blah. . Blah. . .

So, yea verily, here it is. (Said with Cajun accent.)

I have discovered that my Korg Karma and Triton Studio (especially the Karma) are vital to my using Ableton Live. (any Triton Studio can become a Karma with additional software from Stephen Kay/Korg.)

First NOTICE!!. . . I do not play live. . . anything. . .not since I played bass/brass/keys in a jazz trio in college (1963!!).

My use of Ableton LIVE! is as an audio arranger/editor/clip-loop manufacturing tool.

I was using Acid and Sonar or Vegas altogether. Not so now. You know why! LIVE!

But I need material to play in LIVE! and I refuse to buy loops (for any and all the possible reasons from cost to same-as to gotta remix to make-it-mine, etc.)

Laziness is the Mother of Creativity!!!

First time I heard the Karma, I know what to do with it (not I was supposed to do with it, of course . I would let it create loops for me.

Now, I am not that great a keyboard player, especially the new music and any form of electronic music.
Not really needed with the Karma if I can edit MIDI. The Karma module creates MIDI and plays it on the instrument (or any MIDI tone generator, like my Triton Studio!)

BTW! The Karma samples, programs/combis, tone generator, effects box are dropped right out of the Triton Studio, which is why I also have a Triton Studio 61, to have the same sounds etc. and extra MIDI sequencer as the Karma (plus sampler, cd-burner, digital I/O, etc. One plus one is infinity!! ? !

My Karma has paid for itself in the past year just in loop libraries not purchased!! $$$

So, anyone considering this option will want to know (or will pre-judge) if the Karma is a valid instrument for their needs.

Bet it would be with very little effort. . . do not tell me I am crazy, that is already established. Prove me wrong!!

Check Karma at Korg:
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_pro ... egory_id=1

Check Karma Software at Korg:
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?A_PROD_NO=KARMAMW

Check Stephen Kay’s Karma-Lab site and forum, etc.:
http://www.karma-lab.com/KARMA/KARMA.html

There are lots of mp3s and demo videos around.

Go to store and mess with one.
Bet you will want one even if you play by ear (most of us do, no matter what our backgrounds).

The value in sound possibilities per dollar is high even before touching any knobs, just re-boot and punch a chord button (there are 4 lit up in the Karma section).

Do I hear any support here for the Karma being a great supplemental tool for Ableton LIVE! ???
Who has one?

Who wants one?

Thanks for reading. Let it grow!

John the Pilgrim

[bensuthers]

i make loops using arpegiators on Virus and JP8K and using sequenced synthesizers in Reaktor (plugged in to Live using Reaktor FX plugin)

[tjwett]

i have long since sold my RM1X but i did love it when it was around. i never thought of it's similarities to Live but i guess i see where you're coming from. the RM1X was my first "workstation" and i'm pissed that i never fully exploited it. i didn't know shit about synthesis then and just used to trigger and sequence my sampler, along with the occasional preset from it's ROM. it had a damn nice sequencer though, very tight and easy to use. hearing your enthusiasm for that box makes me think twice about it. it would indeed make a pretty sick companion to Live. i'd almost consider going out and getting one but it's still the same exact price i paid for it in 1998. wild shit. thanks for reminding me of that thing. i'm gonna look at some pictures of it online now.

[Pilgrim]

i make loops using arpegiators on Virus and JP8K and using sequenced synthesizers in Reaktor (plugged in to Live using Reaktor FX plugin)

Thank You, BenSutters. In your post is a formula outline for creating original loops tailored to whatever need arises. It is a really good process.

Better coming from you, a professional proven in these forums than from me, an experimenter who is a retired scientist/teacher yet still an amateur musician using similar tools with a lot less experience.

I use that some formula outline but replace the arpeggiator with the Korg Karma which CAN be used as an arpeggiator but CAN add something more.

Karma can be programmed (using an extensive (!) set of over 400 parameters) to act like a highly skilled session musician playing just about any instrument including make-believe, new ones.

An example which is not necessarily an oversimplification would be: I want this musician to play, at a certain point in the song, a riff or glissando or break or chord or whatever (a note series played in a certain rhythm/style/groove in a certain key using this or that chord with a chosen bass note, leading to. . .etc., etc.) Sound familiar?

Normally, I take the notes, play an arpeggio programmed as best the arpeggio creation device can play, then edit it in MIDI to sound as I want, adding controllers and effects to execute the notes.
Can be done, but lots of work and I may not be able to actually do it as well as a session musician on that particular instrument. I may not know the instrument well enough.

The parameter setups supplied with the Karma are programmed by professionals who are acting as session musicians.

The Karma section of the Karma instrument (or the Karma software for the Triton Studio) produces the result in MIDI which is played by the Triton engine/sample player. This MIDI can be saved and edited!!

The results are amazing.

I get to at least start with a passage played “properly”, programmed beyond my expertise but then, using the new MW Karma software, I can change it to fit my strange needs.
Many parameters can be set to panel controls to manipulate in real time by me.
It IS a bit more complex AND flexible, but you should get the idea.

You say you do not want traditional instruments, no problem. Possibilities are quite limitless.

Sound interesting?

You bet it does. This will not, in some styles of music, supplant the use of an arpeggiator but it presents expanded opportunities or at least programming simplification.


Having fun in Sunny Florida,
John the Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

i have long since sold my RM1X but i did love it when it was around. i never thought of it's similarities to Live but i guess i see where you're coming from. the RM1X was my first "workstation" and i'm pissed that i never fully exploited it. i didn't know shit about synthesis then and just used to trigger and sequence my sampler, along with the occasional preset from it's ROM. it had a damn nice sequencer though, very tight and easy to use. hearing your enthusiasm for that box makes me think twice about it. it would indeed make a pretty sick companion to Live. i'd almost consider going out and getting one but it's still the same exact price i paid for it in 1998. wild shit. thanks for reminding me of that thing. i'm gonna look at some pictures of it online now.

tjwett,
I’m with you. Exploit it, you say? I am still finding things that it will do, or maybe creating new things for it to do.
When we travel, I usually take the Karma since it has a sequencer to record/edit, but when space is premium, I take the RM1x, CBX-K2 controller keyboard and headphones plus a few discs of songs/clips and I can work or just enjoy.

It is not much of a “synth”. Just a rompler but has the full XG Yamaha effects which are still kick butt. I leave it hooked to a Yamaha MU100r and use it for many things.

It does make a great gigging tool when playing a sampler. Normally has 8 tracks of drums/percussion and 8 tracks of anything else all controlled with programmable mutes.

The similarities to LIVE! that I spoke of can best be seen by standing the RM1x on its left side and seeing the keys as LIVE Scenes. Then everything is about in the same matrix except it is MIDI and, of course, no drag-n-drop but it “plays” much the same. It even records to a “song” section much as LIVE! records to the Arranger side.

One really neat thing that the RM1x can do is load a MIDI song and chop it up into looping phrases played in sections (scenes) with lots of twisting and stuttering or whatever available via real time knobs. There is even wildly variable harmony.

I often see an RM1x for less than $500 but if it were “out of print” it would be around $200 or even less and a better value.
The rom sounds are dated but coming back in style There are hoards of sampled analog sounds twisted before rom-ed.

I will let you know how well it works as a controller for LIVE! I do not gig but may be able to relate.

Thanks,
John the Pilgrim