2008

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Will the USA wake up before it's too late?

Yes
12
13%
No
39
41%
There will be martial law and then a massive peacefull revolution
3
3%
There will be martial law and then a massive violent revolution
6
6%
it won't matter because of the financial crisis leading to economic collapse
26
27%
it won't matter because peak oil will turn the USA into a 3rd world country
10
10%
 
Total votes: 96

zstowasser
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2008

Post by zstowasser » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:42 am

What are you excied about for 2008 and beyond?

Myself is the new revolution... currently the focus is all about Ron Paul

also:

Sustainability
Sound Money
Peace
Spiritual Enlightenment
The Mayan Calendar and 2011/2012
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:06 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opini ... ref=slogin
NY Times wrote:We can only hope that this time, unlike 2004, American voters will have the wisdom to grant the awesome powers of the presidency to someone who has the integrity, principle and decency to use them honorably. Then when we look in the mirror as a nation, we will see, once again, the reflection of the United States of America.

leedsquietman
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Post by leedsquietman » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:44 am

The only problem is the religious right will show up and already the Republicans have 25% of the vote down. That's a heck of a swing in their favour already. Add in the rednecks, yahoos and co that pushes the figure up in the midwest and southern states and probably gives them 35-40% of the vote right off the bat, never mind the millions of undecided.

We have to hope that the vast majority of the rest of the US citizens will turn up and vote the other way. Voter apathy was a big part of why Bush was reelected last time.

Another Republican victory will prolong the misery and killing of thousands of innocents and put the country in serious economic dire straits paying for all the wars they are involved in while there are homeless people and millions without medical insurance and living below the poverty line at home already.

Still, if the US continue to sustain losses and have to throw millions of dollars a day at these conflicts for another 2 or 3 years, even a Republican might see sense and pull out...
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:55 am

leedsquietman wrote:The only problem is the religious right will show up and already the Republicans have 25% of the vote down. That's a heck of a swing in their favour already. Add in the rednecks, yahoos and co that pushes the figure up in the midwest and southern states and probably gives them 35-40% of the vote right off the bat, never mind the millions of undecided.

We have to hope that the vast majority of the rest of the US citizens will turn up and vote the other way. Voter apathy was a big part of why Bush was reelected last time.

Another Republican victory will prolong the misery and killing of thousands of innocents and put the country in serious economic dire straits paying for all the wars they are involved in while there are homeless people and millions without medical insurance and living below the poverty line at home already.

Still, if the US continue to sustain losses and have to throw millions of dollars a day at these conflicts for another 2 or 3 years, even a Republican might see sense and pull out...
ron paul is the only republican in favor of troop withdrawl and i believe kuchinich and mike gravel are the only democrat candidates in favor of such.

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Post by mohler » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:05 am

I don't think that Peak oil will have that much of an effect on the US in 2008. I think that having it first woman president will have way more of an effect.
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snakedogman
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Post by snakedogman » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:49 am

or the first black president ... it could happen (he's got Oprah! ;))

Landser
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Re: 2008

Post by Landser » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:33 pm

zstowasser wrote:What are you excied about for 2008 and beyond?

Myself is the new revolution... currently the focus is all about Ron Paul
Already JFK was going to leave the criminal FED-system behind. I heard he even had already new US-Dollars, ofcourse not from the FED anymore, but state-money, already in print. And he wanted to put Israels nuclear-program under international observation. We all know what happened to him. No chance that Ron Paul would survive the campaign, if he would become favourite.

Nevertheless, i think 2008 will be an exciting year, because of the continuing decline of the regime. But i'm convinced USrael will not collapse this year already.

zstowasser
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its not partistan politics anymore

Post by zstowasser » Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:36 pm

leedsquietman wrote: Another Republican victory will prolong the misery and killing of thousands of innocents and put the country in serious economic dire straits paying for all the wars they are involved in while there are homeless people and millions without medical insurance and living below the poverty line at home already.

Still, if the US continue to sustain losses and have to throw millions of dollars a day at these conflicts for another 2 or 3 years, even a Republican might see sense and pull out...
Hey Leeds, sorry to be the one to break it to you, but its not "republicans vs democrats" anymore. The democrats have been hijacked too! They're also controlled by the corporations and elites. The whole partistan politics / good cop / bad cop is a red herring.

We must now look at a candidate based on their character and on the issues.

A few years ago, I would have never seen myself registering republican and voting for Ron Paul. But now I am. I won't vote for Obama - he's clueless and supports the 'thought crime bill' (http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... ought.html. Most definitely not voting for Hilary Clinton. I would vote for Dennis Kucinich or Mike Gravel but their odds are very slim. Ron Paul has a huge movement behind him and would keep his promises and really change the world. He would bring PEACE.

We need to vote out ALL incumbents and get some fresh people in there. Then if they still don't represent the will of the people, they'll get voted out again!!

We must no longer accept 'the lesser of two evils'.

However, voting may not matter because of all the hacking that can take place to give negative votes, etc.. but that's another story!

BTW - I've got a new project that I've made as a resource for interesting info that isn't in the mainstream. Its on a variety of topics. This month i'll be getting more into sustainability. But i've got tons of info on ron paul, corruption, economic collapse, peak oil, etc. http://www.infopatriots.org - If you want to keep updated, please subscribe on the front page!
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

smutek
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Post by smutek » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:12 pm

Good points all around. Personally I can't see how much different a Hillary Clinton White House would be to what we have now. The woman is down right evasive, and she's already in the pocket of AIPAC and numerous other interest groups.

The whole process is just sickening to watch. How Dennis Kucinich was "not invited" to those last debates, Iowa I think it was...

I considered changing party affiliations to vote for Ron Paul in the primary elections. The reason I did not was because I think that Ron Paul actually stands a chance to win his party's nomination - more of a chance than Kucinich, who stands virtually no chance at all. Since I am a life long Democrat I will give Kucinich my vote in the primary elections to send my message to the Democratic Party. And we will see what happens.

I actually did change my mind about that, just a week ago, and decided to change party affiliation and go with Paul in the primaries, but I had already missed the deadline.

Ron Paul has my support, but if he does win the Republican nominations and loses the election - esp. to some one like Hillary, a known corporate candidate - I can pretty much guarantee you that you will see Americans out in the street like you've never seen before, especially if there is even the slightest suggestion of vote rigging. (as there has been in the last two elections)

I know it's a pipe dream, but if they both lose the nominations I would absolutely love to see an independent Paul/Kucinich ticket.

nowtime
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Post by nowtime » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:56 pm

I voted YES for the waking up. I sense there are good things coming. It is going to be an AMAZING year, and there is a real possibility of us creating more "power to the people" than we've seen in a long time.
Life is Good

dcease
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Post by dcease » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:57 pm

is change even possible at this stage? have we backed ourselves so far into the corner that escape is nigh impossible? an analogy i like to use is a truck, traveling at 65 mph (105kph :D) is one inch(2.5cm) away from a cliff's edge... can it stop in time to avoid the inevitable drop to death?
the gears have long since started grinding, and the path set. nothing bar a major cataclysmic shift shall derail the current trajectory. what the outcome shall be, is anyone's guess, although consensus says it won't be good. history shall write, with our blood, it's tome onto it's skin.

often i ponder these issues of humanity, and somewhere in me, hope springs eternal, and i believe that each of us has what it takes to get the job done. but these days, i am not fueled by such optimistic views. i look at the current state, and wonder, "what can 'I' do? who would listen to 'ME'?"

i do not plan to vote. maybe my mind will change between now and then, but i can guaranty i will not be voting among party lines, nor will i ever. and as long as americans choose to do so, our political system shall continue to be no more than a glorified popularity contest. what choice is there between party a and party b, both of whose loyalty lies not in the american people, but in capitalist gains? we vote democraticaly, our capitalist leaders, whose main concern is the bottom line- turning a profit. for the people-this is true...franklin, grant, jackson, hamilton, lincoln, washington. for these people our government runs(power to the people, who posess these people). and the only way to change this is to take away their power, their money. not like robin hood, instead, by not spending our money on stuff we do not need. by only buying products made in the US, supporting our own economy, instead of resorting to modern day slavery, filling another country's need to do something with their over-populated, under-employed citizenship, which ultimately lines the pockets of boardroom members thousands of miles away, from the profit margin obtained by selling us cheap goods that were researched, sourced, produced, and imported at costs far below what we pay for them, sometimes upwards of ten times more. if it breaks, buy another- they are cheap enough. the whole time, we weaken the value of our dollar, driving up the costs, yet the production remains relatively the same, so the cheap goods cost us more of our hard-earned money, which does not increase at the same rate as the costs we incur. and the corporations make even more. but at least we have it better than a large majority of the world. so for as long as my vote decides which multinational will influence policy, i defer, choosing not to attempt to decide which, if either, is the lesser of two evils. p.diddy and madonna shall not change my mind, nor make me to feel guilty as to my decision, either. my vote is no vote at all. silent protest against the current system. until a canidate represents me, and my ideals, i shall have to politely excuse myself from the proceedings.

i see no reason either, to vote for someone based on their gender, or skin color, or religion, which there is already way too much of in our government as is. these things do not qualify them as right for the times, or the job merely based on their "different" physical appearences. they still vote down party lines, observing those who paid for their presidential ticket, first and foremost. but the presidency is only the beginning. we forget that the house and senate are just as, if not more powerful. and again, they vote in the interest of their party/corporate backers. as long as americans vote like this, there will be no change, nothing new shall come from a black or female, save a question for trivia.

the framers of our constitution may or may not have agreed with the way things turned out, especially considering they were basically british traitor/terrorists. all of the patriotic slogans and such do not describe the america that i live in, nor the one i've read about in the books. give me liberty, or give me death! more like take our liberty, or take your death. and no, freedom is not free. it's quite expensive, apparently costing billions, not to forget the blood that must be shed for the ever growing conquest machine. die for your country's will to control. why are there so many US bases around the world? we are the world's self-appointed police. we are the future. we are the world. unification is the next step, far beyond the UN. one money, one language, above god, with liberty and justice for the wealthy. for everyone else, they will decide what you make, what you have, where you will live, what you can say, where you can go, what you can eat. money already dictates this, to a certain degree, but soon they will dictate the money, eliminating hard currency altogether. people shall be networked like never before, and the need has already arose for further safety measures, and soon technology shall catch-up, and the Biometric Electronic Advanced Systems Tracker chip shall be born. probably will have a catchier name, though. think of the implications-the ability to stop bank fraud, counterfitting, drug sales, kidnappings, being able to prosecute murderers etc.

sounds kinda scifi, right? the technology is advancing. it is being tested around the world, possibly by you and the onstar in your car. or mcdonalds accepting your pass 'n pay debit key, for faster service. doesn't sound right? what can be done about it? i don't know. no revolution will overthrow our government, they'd stop you long before you even came close to gathering the amount of people and supplies needed for such a task. we have long since become weak and ineffectual, instead jumping on the bandwagon, and falling in line. it's a system of control, and we'd be best to just comply, and go with the flow. buy those new 179.00 dollar nike shoes. this is what defines our lives as americans. save all out anarchy, this is how it shall remain, till we burn... either by our own hands, the planet's, or the universe.

so until then, i'll enjoy as much of my life as i can, and not worry too much about tomorrow, as today is good enough for now. besides, the only thing i usually change is my socks.

zstowasser
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Post by zstowasser » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:46 pm

we are listening to you!

keep talking. we agree with your frustration. you'd be suprised how many more share this view but don't know where to start. I say we need to have self respect and stand up for what is right. we all have to get together.

have you checked out ron paul? He is against the USA as an empire and will get our troops home from not only iraq but from all the bases around the world. He will also protect our money by making sure it can't be made out of thin air. Ron Paul believes that people can take care of themselves and until we believe that, other people will decide our fate for us.

I have a question for you: What kind of world would you like? Tell me all the positive things you can imagine. I believe this is the key. We must imagine a better future. I know this works through the power of attraction. We create our own reality.
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

forge
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Post by forge » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:18 am

you know what I think the US needs to adopt compulsory voting - if people are forced to vote (or face a fine) then often it makes people take that little bit of time to look into the candidates and then it's a little less about who can afford the biggest campaign

as much as it sounds like being forced to do something it actually makes for a healthier democracy

dcease
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Post by dcease » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:54 am

yes, maybe so forge, but again, with parties looking out for themselves, and their interests, what would change? even if a canidate claimed he were for something, it would still boil down to his/her respective party influencing the agenda, which will go nowhere if the house does nothing. so if a faux republican/democrat went through the whole process with a hidden agenda, got into office, and tried to go against their party, their presidency would be wasted. as long as these two parties control the law writing of our country, what political choice do we really have? many would say our country is broken, or breaking down, as the implied urgency of the next election shows. people are clamoring for a change, and if the political institution has created this climate, what do they care for change? people en mass are far too blind to see the corruption for what it is, a blatant asswiping of the wording of our most sacred documents. to read the declaration of independence or the constitution, and take the wording at face value, i find it hard to imagine franklin, jefferson, washington had in mind the selling of the american soul to the lowest bidder. it does not say that (of course ignoring the blatant hypocrisy of these slave owners) "All men are created equal but this does not matter, for those who are born with ye silver spoon are different upon birth, for the only thing truly equal of We, the Privaliged, and you, the average, and underaverage, is in fact, just that... the carnal method of the creation of our exsistence. Yea, beyond this, Our Family Heritage doth maketh we better than thou...", unless there is a version for us and a version for them. i often wonder if religous people have different versions of their 'book of codes' i.e. bible, etc., than the version available to an outsider, for instance, when you become a member of our church, you get the REAL version of our book, the one that leads to the virgins and pots o gold, or streets or whatever. but i digress. the framework was laid well, but the foreman went to the bar everyday, and didn't watch who was building the house. soon, a collapse was inevitable. the project has no completion date, and is seriously over budget...
so the next move is:
a) wait for Jesus
b) nothing is wrong
c) fix what we can, even if only cosmetic, and hope
d) tear it down, and start again

maybe if limits were placed on any one organization having too much of anything. if there is a (r) president, (r) senate, (r) house, and (r) supreme court, isn't this a monoply? aren't there laws against this for business ( which have found numerous ways around these)? well the government is clearly a business, and the (d) and (r) have this on lock down. what if they, or any other body, could never occupy more than 15%? this would allow no less than six parties in congress, but of course this is open for misinterpretations also.

alas, maybe the only positive change would be for strong people to go out and reach the masses and give them a viable alternative, in every district across the land. a party, truly for the people, with real ideals, and the drive to bandage our wounded society. who feel that a teacher is more valuable to our sucess in humanity then a football player, and subsequently should earn far more money than they presently do. i can think of hundreds of jobs that are essential in our society, yet are filled by underpaid, and consequently uninspired people. if the next biggest thing is more important than the garbage man, then we are in a very precarious situation. hardwork is no longer a trait to strive for, and is actually ridiculed by many. the lazy, let the next man fix it attitude is detrimental to the current generation, and subsequently the next. is the man who has his fill, and throws the scraps to the dogs really sharing with them? every human in this world deserves clean water, shelter, and a chance to learn, and work, and worship whoever/whatever they wish, without fear of persecution, and food, and a voice in their society. no one person deserves more than this, until ALL have this. greed is wrong and should not be encouraged in any fashion whatsoever. this is a world i envision... everyone has enough, and then the power hungry can have their lam(b)os, and yachts, and cold fish eggs, and bubbly wine. i dont desire this crap, but as long as everyone has enough, i wouldn't mind them having it. bless my bleeding heart, play me a violin.

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:06 am

snakedogman wrote:or the first black president ... it could happen (he's got Oprah! ;))
He's actually a strong candidate in my opinion - not just cause he's black

but I have news for you guys - he's not really african american

his dad was from Kenya and his moms white

don't get it twisted - he's as black as the day is long he's just not the descendant of Leroy and Shawniqua from over off MLK street black ;)

four years ago I really didn't want to be like everyone around me and made a terrible decision - I'm fixing that one for sure this time round though (trust dat)!
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