2008

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

Will the USA wake up before it's too late?

Yes
12
13%
No
39
41%
There will be martial law and then a massive peacefull revolution
3
3%
There will be martial law and then a massive violent revolution
6
6%
it won't matter because of the financial crisis leading to economic collapse
26
27%
it won't matter because peak oil will turn the USA into a 3rd world country
10
10%
 
Total votes: 96

abotha5
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:21 am

Re: Democrats vs Republicans

Post by abotha5 » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:38 pm

M. Bréqs wrote:
abotha5 wrote: I would much rather prefer the religious right than the atheist left. The republicans will once again win the Presidency.
What about the Athiest Right?

...I feel like such a minority.
Breqs
The point Im making and it's rather tongue in cheek, is why do the Liberals always refer to the religious right and have no connetation for the left. It also implies that if the right is religious then the opposite of right which is left should be athiest

Tone Deft
Posts: 23789
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: SF, CA

Re: Democrats vs Republicans

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:44 pm

abotha5 wrote:
M. Bréqs wrote:
abotha5 wrote: I would much rather prefer the religious right than the atheist left. The republicans will once again win the Presidency.
What about the Athiest Right?

...I feel like such a minority.
Breqs
The point Im making and it's rather tongue in cheek, is why do the Liberals always refer to the religious right and have no connetation for the left. It also implies that if the right is religious then the opposite of right which is left should be athiest
the term 'religious right' is not a term used by just liberals, the religious right call themselves that, they're proud of it and they're an identifiable group of people.

I'd stop if I was you, you're embarrassing your fellow GOP forum members.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

zstowasser
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:09 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV USA
Contact:

Post by zstowasser » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:50 pm

abotha5 wrote:If they do bad then you kick them out, but that's just a dream right now
Helplessness is Apathy. Apathy allows this circus to continue. Ron Paul cured my Apathy.

Restore the power of the Federal Government to what the founders intended: Small and Limited. Give the states back their constitutional authority. Restrict the power of the Federal Government.
abotha5 wrote:You want to be safe. You want freedom of movement and human rights and all the other good things but you do not want to make sacrifices.
It is never ok to give up your liberty for security. There is no security without liberty.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin / Richard Jackson
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

abotha5
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:21 am

Post by abotha5 » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:03 pm

zstowasser wrote:
abotha5 wrote:If they do bad then you kick them out, but that's just a dream right now
Helplessness is Apathy. Apathy allows this circus to continue. Ron Paul cured my Apathy.

I believe Ron Paul is a bit of a dreamer. We all want Utopia but it just wont happen because the majority of the people just dont care. The attitude is as long as it doent affect me im ok. It would require a catastrofic event to wake everybody up

It is never ok to give up your liberty for security. There is no security without liberty.

You could also say there is no liberty without security

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin / Richard Jackson
What essential liberties have you given up? How has it affected you personally, and I mean this in the nicest of ways?

Tone Deft
Posts: 23789
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: SF, CA

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm

abotha5 wrote:
zstowasser wrote:
abotha5 wrote:If they do bad then you kick them out, but that's just a dream right now
Helplessness is Apathy. Apathy allows this circus to continue. Ron Paul cured my Apathy.

I believe Ron Paul is a bit of a dreamer. We all want Utopia but it just wont happen because the majority of the people just dont care. The attitude is as long as it doent affect me im ok. It would require a catastrofic event to wake everybody up

It is never ok to give up your liberty for security. There is no security without liberty.

You could also say there is no liberty without security

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin / Richard Jackson
What essential liberties have you given up? How has it affected you personally, and I mean this in the nicest of ways?
under Bush, there's the Patriot Act which violates personal privacy, then there's the right to assemble and free speach Bush has taken away when he made war protests illegal:
http://www.rense.com/general77/asset.htm
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

dcease
Posts: 2405
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:43 am

Post by dcease » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:12 am

i'm relieved there are like-minded people in the world. this disscussion wouldn't last long at work... any place i've ever worked.


as far as proof of conspericies... what good would proof be? people know what they know, and some are willing to kill for that which they believe. christians know jesus is their lord and saviour, muslims know allah reigns above all, atheists know there is no proof of exsistence of a "higher power", and are comfortable in things that can be explained, logically, without magic. who is right? if to trust the majority is right, then our liberties have been stripped, as the most popular wins over the good of all people. religion has no place in our political establishment, other than the guaranty of one's right to worship what they choose. this is what the words mean to me, when i hear democracy. for the people.

and might i remind that nazi germany became the majority. was this right?
lest we forget...

zstowasser
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:09 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV USA
Contact:

it's on the books..

Post by zstowasser » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:34 am

abotha5 wrote: What essential liberties have you given up? How has it affected you personally, and I mean this in the nicest of ways?
As an activist and writer for my blog infopatriots.org, I am concerned that it is possible for the government to label me as a terrorist and ship me to a secret prison such as Guantanamo or one of the many "concentration camps" that have been built by Fema/Haliburton.

With laws such as the Patriot Act (rip habeas corpus), Military commissions Act of 2006 (removal of posse comitatus - now the military can patrol the USA), S1959 / HR1955 (takes the fight on terrorism to the internet and here at home, vague language makes it possible for activists to be arrested - aka "thought crime bill" ). Warrantless Wiretappings with the NSA scanning and archiving everything on the internet with a direct pipe from AT&T - can you say fascism??. Furthermore, FBI agents are being trained to classify people who talk about and defend the constitution as dangerous terrorists!!

There are reasons to be worried. Even if nothing has happened yet, the laws are on the books. All it takes is an "event" to trigger this. It could be economic collapse or it could be biological or it could be WW3.

There is a "blueprint" that is being followed to turn a democracy into a fascist state, just like they did in Germany and Italy. Check out Naomi Wolf and her book/video. I will link below.

Haliburton given $385 million to build camps without clear reason as to why - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... being.html

Video of one of the camps & links to executive orders - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... utive.html

Naomi Wolf "10 steps to fascism" - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... -wolf.html

Posse Comitatus - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... posse.html

AT&T NSA Warantless Wiretappings - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... lower.html

FBI Training on Constitution - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... ution.html

check out those links and let me know what you think! :)
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

M. Bréqs
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:02 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: it's on the books..

Post by M. Bréqs » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:26 am

zstowasser wrote:
abotha5 wrote: What essential liberties have you given up? How has it affected you personally, and I mean this in the nicest of ways?
As an activist and writer for my blog infopatriots.org, I am concerned that it is possible for the government to label me as a terrorist and ship me to a secret prison such as Guantanamo or one of the many "concentration camps" that have been built by Fema/Haliburton.

There are reasons to be worried. Even if nothing has happened yet, the laws are on the books. All it takes is an "event" to trigger this. It could be economic collapse or it could be biological or it could be WW3.

There is a "blueprint" that is being followed to turn a democracy into a fascist state, just like they did in Germany and Italy. Check out Naomi Wolf and her book/video. I will link below.

Naomi Wolf "10 steps to fascism" - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... -wolf.html

check out those links and let me know what you think! :)
Oddly enough, it's the Left in Canada that's eroding our civil liberties...

One of our citizens has been hauled before a "Human Rights Commission" (a series kangaroo courts that have NEVER in history found a defendant innocent). This isn't the first time, but this time they're not picking on lone conspiracy nuts in their mom's basement; They're picking on Mark Steyn, who's the first who's willing and capable of fighting these monstronsities. A lot of Canadians are getting freaked out about the suppression of freedom of speech by unelected commissions that have infinite prosecutorial budgets, no mandate for timlieness, and force the defendant to mount his own defence.

http://www.macleans.ca/columnists/artic ... 13631_1360
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/new ... d26d288463

Honestly, I fear the soft tyrrany off political correctness more than I fear the potential for hard tyrrany... People are much more willing to accept soft tyrrany in the interest of being tolerant and progressive, while they piss on the freedoms of their ideological opponents.

To be honest, I was never politically active until the Left overstepped it's bounds and started to run rampage over Canada. I was politicized by my university education and by "progressive" society here in canada; just the opposite of what they intended though, and the backlash against political correctness is growing... In fact, I would say that the tyrrany of political correctness in the United states during the '90s is what radicalized the Christian right in the 2000's.

Read Tammy Bruce's "The new thought police"; it's an insider's view of the intellectual corruption of the new left...

http://www.amazon.com/New-Thought-Polic ... _1?ie=UTF8

abotha5
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:21 am

Re: it's on the books..

Post by abotha5 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:58 am

M. Bréqs wrote:
zstowasser wrote:
abotha5 wrote: What essential liberties have you given up? How has it affected you personally, and I mean this in the nicest of ways?
As an activist and writer for my blog infopatriots.org, I am concerned that it is possible for the government to label me as a terrorist and ship me to a secret prison such as Guantanamo or one of the many "concentration camps" that have been built by Fema/Haliburton.

There are reasons to be worried. Even if nothing has happened yet, the laws are on the books. All it takes is an "event" to trigger this. It could be economic collapse or it could be biological or it could be WW3.

There is a "blueprint" that is being followed to turn a democracy into a fascist state, just like they did in Germany and Italy. Check out Naomi Wolf and her book/video. I will link below.

Naomi Wolf "10 steps to fascism" - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... -wolf.html

check out those links and let me know what you think! :)
Oddly enough, it's the Left in Canada that's eroding our civil liberties...

One of our citizens has been hauled before a "Human Rights Commission" (a series kangaroo courts that have NEVER in history found a defendant innocent). This isn't the first time, but this time they're not picking on lone conspiracy nuts in their mom's basement; They're picking on Mark Steyn, who's the first who's willing and capable of fighting these monstronsities. A lot of Canadians are getting freaked out about the suppression of freedom of speech by unelected commissions that have infinite prosecutorial budgets, no mandate for timlieness, and force the defendant to mount his own defence.

http://www.macleans.ca/columnists/artic ... 13631_1360
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/new ... d26d288463

Honestly, I fear the soft tyrrany off political correctness more than I fear the potential for hard tyrrany... People are much more willing to accept soft tyrrany in the interest of being tolerant and progressive, while they piss on the freedoms of their ideological opponents.

To be honest, I was never politically active until the Left overstepped it's bounds and started to run rampage over Canada. I was politicized by my university education and by "progressive" society here in canada; just the opposite of what they intended though, and the backlash against political correctness is growing... In fact, I would say that the tyrrany of political correctness in the United states during the '90s is what radicalized the Christian right in the 2000's.

Read Tammy Bruce's "The new thought police"; it's an insider's view of the intellectual corruption of the new left...

http://www.amazon.com/New-Thought-Polic ... _1?ie=UTF8
Breqs

I too am a Canadian, not by birth but by immigration. I could not have said it better then you have. I have watched the Liberals trying to control every aspect of your life. Dictating what kind of dog you can keep or not have, what type of weedkiller you can use, where you can smoke to what kind of tyres are required for your car. They even ducked the same sex marriage issue by letting the courts decide. They were even at one time considering allowing the use of Sharia law for certain muslim groups. I think the biggest bullshit that I have seen is calling us a multicultural society.

They will ruin Canada and in a couple of years time our official language could be Hindi or perhaps some Chinese language. I also get very very pissed of when Canadians run America down. I know they are not perfect but they do feed one in 5 Canadians with the Motor factories and they are our neighbours who will defend us in time of need. What really gets my goat is when they re-elect prime ministers that broke every election promise such as Mr Mquinty from Ontario. Canada is a great country and I love her and are prepared to lay my life down for her but things will not remain this way with the Liberals in charge. They are rapidly turning her into a communist state.

abotha5
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:21 am

Re: it's on the books..

Post by abotha5 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:08 am

zstowasser wrote:
abotha5 wrote: What essential liberties have you given up? How has it affected you personally, and I mean this in the nicest of ways?
As an activist and writer for my blog infopatriots.org, I am concerned that it is possible for the government to label me as a terrorist and ship me to a secret prison such as Guantanamo or one of the many "concentration camps" that have been built by Fema/Haliburton.

With laws such as the Patriot Act (rip habeas corpus), Military commissions Act of 2006 (removal of posse comitatus - now the military can patrol the USA), S1959 / HR1955 (takes the fight on terrorism to the internet and here at home, vague language makes it possible for activists to be arrested - aka "thought crime bill" ). Warrantless Wiretappings with the NSA scanning and archiving everything on the internet with a direct pipe from AT&T - can you say fascism??. Furthermore, FBI agents are being trained to classify people who talk about and defend the constitution as dangerous terrorists!!

There are reasons to be worried. Even if nothing has happened yet, the laws are on the books. All it takes is an "event" to trigger this. It could be economic collapse or it could be biological or it could be WW3.

There is a "blueprint" that is being followed to turn a democracy into a fascist state, just like they did in Germany and Italy. Check out Naomi Wolf and her book/video. I will link below.

Haliburton given $385 million to build camps without clear reason as to why - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... being.html

Video of one of the camps & links to executive orders - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... utive.html

Naomi Wolf "10 steps to fascism" - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... -wolf.html

Posse Comitatus - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... posse.html

AT&T NSA Warantless Wiretappings - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... lower.html

FBI Training on Constitution - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... ution.html

check out those links and let me know what you think! :)
zstowasser

I hear what you are saying and I will check out your links. I want you to think about one thing though. Do you want to fight the terro's in Iraq or in America, because if the troops withdraw they will bring the fight to America. I was involved in fighting terro's for 15 years and currently 35000 of my army mates are doing duty in Iraq. If the fight comes to America what now appears as bad laws will look like Sunday school readings compared to what will be implemented Whether you like it or not the way of life in America changed forever with 911. I also believe Canada will be changed in the future with a similar event.

M. Bréqs
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:02 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: it's on the books..

Post by M. Bréqs » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:25 am

abotha5 wrote: If the fight comes to America what now appears as bad laws will look like Sunday school readings compared to what will be implemented Whether you like it or not the way of life in America changed forever with 911. I also believe Canada will be changed in the future with a similar event.
Sadly, I think you're right about Canada. We're going to see a "Liberal Tyrrany" grow within our society, and a backlash which will result in the breakup of the country (Western Seperatism and Quebec Seperatism will resurge in populatiry).

djgroovy
Posts: 2025
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:15 pm
Location: Portugal

Post by djgroovy » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:56 am

I don't understand how will "the fight come to America" and "America changed forever with 911. I also believe Canada will be changed in the future with a similar event."

Care to explain?

popslut
Posts: 1056
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:58 pm

Re: it's on the books..

Post by popslut » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:18 am

abotha5 wrote: I too am a Canadian, not by birth but by immigration. [...]

They will ruin Canada and in a couple of years time our official language could be Hindi or perhaps some Chinese language.
I love it when immigrants start getting uppity about other immigrants.

zstowasser
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:09 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV USA
Contact:

Re: it's on the books..

Post by zstowasser » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:47 pm

abotha5 wrote: I hear what you are saying and I will check out your links. I want you to think about one thing though. Do you want to fight the terro's in Iraq or in America, because if the troops withdraw they will bring the fight to America. I was involved in fighting terro's for 15 years and currently 35000 of my army mates are doing duty in Iraq. If the fight comes to America what now appears as bad laws will look like Sunday school readings compared to what will be implemented Whether you like it or not the way of life in America changed forever with 911. I also believe Canada will be changed in the future with a similar event.
They are fighting us because we are over there. Not because we are free and have democracy, or our culture, etc. We are over there occupying and manipulating their countries. We'd do the same thing if someone was here telling us how to live our lives and manipulating our government!!

We can't just simply leave, we must be honest with the middle east and tell them the real reasons why we were over there and explain to them it will never happen again. Explain to them its not a crusade and we have nothing against them or their religion. It was about strategic locations and resources. Then further drive home that we are very sorry and it will never happen again. Be human. Be humble.

After that, secure our borders and continue to have a modest national defense. Continue talks with other nations to ensure they have proper security and can help prevent these people from getting on planes to come here and kill us, and/or to protect our embassies.

Honestly I don't fear the 'terrorists'. I do fear China and Russia though. They are backing iran and they have interests in the middle east for oil. If we keep being bullies in the middle east and secure the oil, we may have ww3 over resources as oil supplies run out in the near future.

A better idea to fight terrorism and china is to invest in alternative energies to wean ourselves from sucking at the tit of oil... and stop buying crap we don't need from china and make it here instead.

the problem with making things here at home is because of inflation. our cost of living and wages are so artificially high, that we can't compete on a global market. look at argentina - their stuff is super cheap after their currency collapsed. we will need to do the same thing here. reset our prices to something realistic. we cant keep printing money and inflating values to give the illusion of prosperity.. debt does not = wealth.

just look at the price of gold and the stock market, this scenario is coming at us fast....

i'd like a future where we are motivated by the good of our communities rather than chasing inflated paper dollars that continue to lose their value as we print more and prices increase....... what is the point?
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

popslut
Posts: 1056
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:58 pm

Re: it's on the books..

Post by popslut » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:16 pm

zstowasser wrote: i'd like a future where we are motivated by the good of our communities rather than chasing inflated paper dollars that continue to lose their value as we print more...
You speak much sense.

Only if that becomes the prevailing attitude amongst 95% of humans will we avert our species' certain extinction within 100 years.


We have a very short time to educate ourselves out of the blind-alley thinking demonstrated by the likes of abotha5 and Breqs and the millions of ignorant, xenophobic troglodytes that make up the lumpen bulk of western "civilisation".

Small town bigots like abotha5 will gradually get bred out of the gene pool as aggregate intelligence increases but proactive, imperialist bigots like Breqs present more of a danger.

They don't just weigh the rest of us down with their arrogance and crass stupidity - they actually have ambition and seek to proactively spread their poisoned view of the world through their "altruistic missionary work".

One day Breqs somebody will come to your home from abroad and try to "civilise" you.

Then you'll get it.

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