how to use ableton live as a looper

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
kidbeyond
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Post by kidbeyond » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:23 pm

exaltron wrote:I'm surprised that artists like Kid Beyond haven't persuaded Abes to add this feature.
Believe me, I've tried. Sigh.

Now that L7 is out, I guess I'll try again for L8.

The impression I get from the Abefolks is that they look carefully at the most requested features on this forum. So the best strategy is to continue to be a squeaky wheel.

I'm in NYC later this month (Sullivan Room, Jan 27). C'mon down.

TroyP
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Post by TroyP » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:52 pm

...TroyP do you have any of your stuff posted? I looked on your profile but I didn't see anything.
Nope. Too new at this. I've been doing music for quite a while, but new to the loops and electronic aspect of it.

Plus, most of what I do is play other people's music for church services. We have licenses to do that, but not to post any of it. For this, I'm using Live to run loops for our band to play with, so we can 1) stay together better (click, percussion) and 2) to add layers that aren't represented by our players (strings, horns, bgv, the missing drummer).

I'm trying to use the machine, without it sounding like a machine. So, I've had to punch in and out in the middle of songs. That's why I jumped in on this thread--not because I'm a live looper expert. :)

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:02 pm

kidbeyond wrote:
exaltron wrote:I'm surprised that artists like Kid Beyond haven't persuaded Abes to add this feature.
Believe me, I've tried. Sigh.

Now that L7 is out, I guess I'll try again for L8.
Speaking as someone who has personally see you push your ideas on looping to Ableton I say that the world would be a lesser place without your tenacity.

Andreas.

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:05 pm

hey Abes, toke on this idea for a while:

instant Live looping will definitely sell more Live licenses. I'd say more than the slicer, 64 bit engine or time signature support.

more money for you to spend on fuel for the Ableton yacht.
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dj superflat
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Post by dj superflat » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:48 pm

agreed. the uptick in interest from (e.g.) guitar players, other trad instrumentalists, is obvious on the forum, leaving aside all the new HW loopers out there (few of which are really suited to what most folk seem to want to do, none of which have the versatility of SW). there's clearly a market, so why not take it? and doesn't it fit perfectly with what live is about? what's more live than live soundonsound looping?

ThrowAway
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Post by ThrowAway » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:45 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAA3PkWBHuY

heres another one from stray on youtube about looping with Live.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:16 am

L7 introduced the facility for the first loop you drag in to set the master tempo.

So I think, based on that development, Ableton may actually be working towards the implementation of "first recorded loop sets the master tempo". It seems like a possibility anyway.

forge
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Post by forge » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:41 am

Tone Deft wrote:hey Abes, toke on this idea for a while:

instant Live looping will definitely sell more Live licenses. I'd say more than the slicer, 64 bit engine or time signature support.

more money for you to spend on fuel for the Ableton yacht.
Tone Deft wrote:hey Abes, toke on this idea for a while:

instant Live looping will definitely sell more Live licenses. I'd say more than the slicer, 64 bit engine or time signature support.

more money for you to spend on fuel for the Ableton yacht.
combine this with the almighty CCs in session and you've got a couple of biggies - I'd really like it to do more on the live looping front as well

but I started writing down my list for Live 8 and here's my top 5:
  1. session Ccs
  2. separate automation and sequence record – (midi/key assignable 'A' automation record button)
  3. Alias clips
  4. BTA buttons per track
  5. dual monitor
number 1 alone is probably the biggest ever request for Live as it has been there since the very beginning and so it is obviously a very big deal and I wonder how much else we'll have to miss out on in order to get it in there

the automation stuff is a a biggie for me too - recording an arrangement from session into arrange is an absolute mess and the whole system should be WAY more mature by version 8

but Stefan from specifications @ Abe has said both of those things are high on their radar so I'm really hoping that means they are planning to do it for Live 8

other things on my list were:
LFO plug-in
more flexible routing
step sequencer
which have all been common requests too

I agree they should definitely appease the live looping market (in fact I'd include myself in that) but I desperately want CCs in session and the automation system sorted as they are the bain of my life and really ruin it for me and I have been going on about it for literally years now

so how do you please everyone?

dj superflat
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Post by dj superflat » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:52 am

see, that's the point -- it's not about pleasing everyone, or anyone, just for the sake of doing it. it has to be tied to the economics/demand. that is, if a live looper is more of a draw than session ccs, ableton seemingly should focus on the looper, even if people have been howling for ccs for years. of course, you can't turn off your most loyal followers, so there's some cost benefit analysis to be done, could be that keeping old users happy is more cost effective than acquiring new via new features (though most recent version suggests latter is priority, not former). either way, it should turn on bang for buck, effect on market compared to resources expended (which is why the last set of updates was somewhat mystifying -- who needs more soft synths?? -- unless you assume ableton is trying to compete with DAWs like logic and others with all sorts of built in synths and fx, rather than stay focused on live apps).

exaltron
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Post by exaltron » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:52 am

kidbeyond wrote:
exaltron wrote:I'm surprised that artists like Kid Beyond haven't persuaded Abes to add this feature.
Believe me, I've tried. Sigh.

Now that L7 is out, I guess I'll try again for L8.

The impression I get from the Abefolks is that they look carefully at the most requested features on this forum. So the best strategy is to continue to be a squeaky wheel.
No doubt, I think the combination of established artists like yourself and the rest of us making noise on here should help them see what a no-brainer this is. By the way, as Andreas said below, we all owe you some gratitude for the serious improvements you've effected on Live. Not to mention what your artistic achievements inspire..
kidbeyond wrote:I'm in NYC later this month (Sullivan Room, Jan 27). C'mon down.
Aw crap, I'm doing a show in Albuquerque that weekend. I will definitely keep an eye out for your shows though.
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forge
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Post by forge » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:56 am

dj superflat wrote:see, that's the point -- it's not about pleasing everyone, or anyone, just for the sake of doing it. it has to be tied to the economics/demand. that is, if a live looper is more of a draw than session ccs, ableton seemingly should focus on the looper, even if people have been howling for ccs for years. of course, you can't turn off your most loyal followers, so there's some cost benefit analysis to be done, could be that keeping old users happy is more cost effective than acquiring new via new features (though most recent version suggests latter is priority, not former). either way, it should turn on bang for buck, effect on market compared to resources expended (which is why the last set of updates was somewhat mystifying -- who needs more soft synths?? -- unless you assume ableton is trying to compete with DAWs like logic and others with all sorts of built in synths and fx, rather than stay focused on live apps).
well let's hope it doesnt come down to a choice between the 2!

session CCs would help Live loopers immensely any way as you could record your automation directly into the clips as you create them

there are so many problems I find working with Live that could be solved with session CCs because it would change how I use it - for example the automation issue would be far less fo a problem because I would no longer need to hit global record straight away just to record the sweeps I want

dj superflat
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Post by dj superflat » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:58 am

further thought: though it kills me to say it, it's likely a thankless task for ableton to add a looper. it won't satisfy everyone, it will be like sampler, some folk loving it, others asking why time was wasted on it, and this seems as if not more likely to be the case with a looper, where personal configurations rule. but i still think it'd drive sales to a market they currently may not get as much of as they should (and one that logic and other DAWs are unlikely to serve in the near future).

forge
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Post by forge » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:07 am

dj superflat wrote:further thought: though it kills me to say it, it's likely a thankless task for ableton to add a looper. it won't satisfy everyone, it will be like sampler, some folk loving it, others asking why time was wasted on it, and this seems as if not more likely to be the case with a looper, where personal configurations rule. but i still think it'd drive sales to a market they currently may not get as much of as they should (and one that logic and other DAWs are unlikely to serve in the near future).
I think with Live - well yes they could add a seperate looper device - even charge for it, or they could just make some changes to the operation of Live itself, such as the aforementioned temp from first recording and overrdubbing audio clips - along with MIDI routing so that MIDI yoke or IAC arent needed that could be enough - although as Angstrom has pointed out before there are other things that would need changing, such as some kind of decay so each overdub pass wasnt as loud a the first - but that could maybe be solved internally too somehow

dj superflat
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Post by dj superflat » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:43 am

what you can likely never really get if you stick with live's basic architecture is the ability to manipulate all tracks at the same time, the way sound on sound looping permits. it would be great to have first recorded loop set tempo, but that still wouldn't nearly suit my needs, because i need to be able to reverse all loops/layers at same time, insert on all tracks/layers at same time, cut away from all tracks/layers at same time, etc. currently, only sound on sound loopers permit this (even if all the layers are little more than the equivalent of additional live tracks). maybe there's some easy work around, but conceptually doesn't seem to work with live's architecture (which is great regardless, my fave, etc.).

YILA
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Post by YILA » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:13 pm

kool

Not sure this technique is going to work for me tho, cause you have to have a pre-arranged order in which you play next i.e drums then hats then bass etc etc... i like to zip around the order so might have to stick with manually arming.

could be a nice way for just my guitars tho.. do youknow if it will work with frag pedal tho? (it is a keystroke input)
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