ableton onboards effects, whats your opinion

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

what do you think of the onboard audio-effects

Poll ended at Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:16 pm

below average
6
6%
average
23
23%
good
32
32%
really good
20
20%
perfect for me
19
19%
 
Total votes: 100

dj mush
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ableton onboards effects, whats your opinion

Post by dj mush » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:16 pm

hello,

i was wondering what most users think of the standard onboard audio effects of ableton. (reverb, chorus, etc)

i have the impression that for example the reverb isn't really any good...
or am i missing some crucial settings?

whats your opinion?
and
what are some real good effects plugins that people can advise?

thank you!
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ciw
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Post by ciw » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:34 pm

average. shame because they should be good.

R.J.Dubya
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Post by R.J.Dubya » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:40 pm

Except for the EQ and compressor (which recently got improved), the other 'standard' effects tend to not be very good. They stand up quite poorly to freebies actually. That said, I still use the reverb sometimes, I don't mind it, but I'd never want it as my only reverb. I don't really like saturator at all except for rare circumstances, and I find I never use dynamic tube either. As for the modulations, I replace those with freebies of choruses, phasers etc. A kvr search of free modulation plug-ins will yield tons of them.

I do like some of ableton's other non-'standard' effects though. Grain Delay is super cool. In fact I often use their other delays too for simplicity. And the lo-fi effects are fun, but nothing special. Resonator is decent, but there are others that beat it hands down (like reaktor resonators).

So I guess really it's just the overdrives and modulations I don't like, but even them I use sometimes. It's just that using them exclusively is a sure way to make your tune sound like it's coming from one specific app. :wink:
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forge
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Post by forge » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:53 pm

maybe I'm a luddite but I'm really happy with them - i own Waves plugs and barely use them, I like the character of Live's Delays way more than Waves and the new comp and eq are solid

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Post by Moody » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:53 pm

forge wrote:maybe I'm a luddite but I'm really happy with them - i own Waves plugs and barely use them, I like the character of Live's Delays way more than Waves and the new comp and eq are solid
+1, A little tweaking on any of them can make them sound great.
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at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

Hypomixolydian
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Post by Hypomixolydian » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:30 pm

In my opinion, they are below par. They lack warmth to my ears. I prefer 3rd party stuff by far and that includes free stuff.

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Post by Sales Dude McBoob » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:35 pm

When I use other DAWs I always miss the Live effects.

bgc
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Post by bgc » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:00 pm

I like them. It is easy to go overboard and add certain easily identifiable sonic characteristics to your stuff, though. I don't own any third party stuff. I think that is just a can of worms that I don't want to open. With clever use you should be able to do anything with them, right?

icedsushi
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Post by icedsushi » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:26 pm

I think some of them are just a tad below average, like the chorus, compressorI/II and reverb. Then some of them are above average, like saturator, grain delay, and beat repeat. The rest are average. So the average of all that is "average".

But the bar has been raised since Live 7. I would rate the new compressor and EQ8 as excellent. (Where the former EQ4 used to be average, and compressor II was below average.)

So as of Live 7, my average rating of all the effects has now been raised up to "good". So I voted "good". :wink:

roby
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Post by roby » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:04 pm

I'm not a fan of the modulation effects with the exception of the Auto Panner. I like the Auto Filter, the new eq and compressor are excellent, the delays are great. but you know what? it's about the effect racks...

Homebelly
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Post by Homebelly » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:26 pm

I love this discussion,, i think every DAW specific forum on the net has at least one of these every six months,, The Logic forums,, the PT forums,, The Cubase forums,, and so on,, and so on,, and so on,,

I used to think that there might be a problem with me as i couldn't hear much,, if any,, difference between the included FX,, even when i was using PT/LOGIC and Live all at the same time and the comparison was still fresh,,

My personal take is that all of the included FX sound great if you use them in tandem with one and other,, but, as soon as you add third party FX then those third party Plugs tend to dominate,, not because they are better,, but because they are different,,, in order to return the balance you need to use more 3rd party plugs until you find the blend again,, i found this especially true using waves plugs.

I run almost no third party plugs any more,, i still dip into Pluggo every once in a while as their character is part of the fun,,but, for the most part,, i still use only the included plugs in both Logic and Live and don't waste to much energy worrying that maybe some other vendors plugs with a real pretty GUI is going to be the answer to that particular mixing problem at that time,,,
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Lo-Fi Massahkah
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Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:30 pm

I've just decided that I'm gonna use nothing but the Suite. I can't be bothered to download and demo this and that only 'cause it supposedly sounds "better". It takes a lot less energy just to use what you've got instead of chasing the ultimate plug or instrument.

I bet a lot of good music has been made on a regular Epiphone guitar - you don't always need a Gibson.

-M

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Post by R.J.Dubya » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:41 pm

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:I've just decided that I'm gonna use nothing but the Suite. I can't be bothered to download and demo this and that only 'cause it supposedly sounds "better". It takes a lot less energy just to use what you've got instead of chasing the ultimate plug or instrument.

I bet a lot of good music has been made on a regular Epiphone guitar - you don't always need a Gibson.

-M

I've owned a few epiphones, and I totally agree that an epiphone is just fine as a replacement for a gibson. I can't really tell the difference.

And I really do want to think that all I need is the ableton suite, or at least just the ableton effects, but not a chance. If I make something with 100% ableton and effects and something else with 100% Logic efftects, I find the difference huge. I love the Logic effects, and were they in ableton as native effects, I'd probably use those almost exclusively. So I don't think it's the same argument for every DAW.

I find myself slipping into using a lot of ableton effects though while I'm working in Live, just because they're nicely laid out, easy on cpu etc., and I generally just prefer the interfaces, but every once in a while I realize how much better things sound when I use third-party plugs, and I always think "Damn, why don't I just use my third-party stuff and that's it". It's not that noticeable when playing around with a couple tracks at first, but with a whole mix, I think it really adds up.
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Moody
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Post by Moody » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:00 pm

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:I've just decided that I'm gonna use nothing but the Suite. I can't be bothered to download and demo this and that only 'cause it supposedly sounds "better". It takes a lot less energy just to use what you've got instead of chasing the ultimate plug or instrument.

I bet a lot of good music has been made on a regular Epiphone guitar - you don't always need a Gibson.

-M
+1, I have to have a real need to chase down something outside of what I can get from Ableton now days. That goes for effects and instruments.
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

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Post by Tarekith » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:00 pm

I've been using them more and more and have no complaints. I wish they had a more fully featured delay plug in (ie, one that combines the current three into one), but other than that, no complaints here. The new compressor is loads better than before, and EQ8 seems to be working very good for most tasks. I still grab Sonalksis when I want a bit more character, but other wise I've stopped using most third party plug ins.

Now if only they'd do a proper limiter.... :)

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