NEW Vestax VCM 600 Midi Controller perfect for Live

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
longjohns
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Post by longjohns » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:10 pm

They should make one with 8 channels across the left..

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:39 pm

screw korg, this officially became the controller i want! :P

D@VE!
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Post by D@VE! » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:19 am

the newwer version is really the thing i like as a Live Control Survice !

Schuft
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Vestax VCM600 feature requests

Post by Schuft » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:22 pm

Hi,

I did a feature request post in the vestax forum: http://vestaxpro.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=21804#21804

I also wrote an email to info@vestax.com.

maybe you want to post your personal feature requests there as well !

regards
Schuft

liveplayer
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Post by liveplayer » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:15 am

Hmm...isn't that jumping the gun a little? I mean, there are so many unexplained controllers and features of the control surface, not to mention any accompanying software. Besides, it seems that Vestax is trying to do their homework on this thing and I'm sure trying to avoid a poor product launch. I imagine they have units out to beta testers right now. They've even revised the unit recently and fairly publicly. I'm just in wait-and-see mode right now...
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(MB, VCM-600, 25SL & BM6As coming...PB, Xone:32 & 25 going...)

theque
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Post by theque » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:45 am

anyone get any word on price yet?

liveplayer
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Post by liveplayer » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:31 am

diego vega wrote:here http://www.djdeals.com/vestaxVCM600.htm it says COMING SOON and apparently it will be around $800 but still no release date? i like it, but we'll have to see how portable it really is.
No change that I know of. Of course, thats US dollars...
PB G4 1.25Ghz + 1.5GB RAM
Live 7 + Operator & Sampler
Focusrite Saffire LE
A&H Xone:32
Novation ReMOTE 25
Numark TTX
Ms Pinky VSTi

(MB, VCM-600, 25SL & BM6As coming...PB, Xone:32 & 25 going...)

Schuft
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Post by Schuft » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:29 am

liveplayer wrote:Hmm...isn't that jumping the gun a little? ...
I'd say that depends on individual needs. Of course not everyone needs more buttons. But to add some endless rotary encoders would be fine. You can think of several scenarios were you can use'em.

But I'll buy a VCM600 anyway. I looked around and found out, that if I add an AKAI MPD24 to my setup then I'd have additional drum pads (better buttons) and endless rotary encoders. Though you have to carry one more piece of equipment to the gigs. But we'll see ...

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:48 am

liveplayer wrote: They've even revised the unit recently and fairly publicly. I'm just in wait-and-see mode right now...

I missed this, is it now different than the product shots we have all seen?
or is that the revised version?


the 4 buttons read "[]" , "of-a" , "of-b", "status" . I have no real idea what they do.

the 3 buttons by the fader read "mute", "solo", "rec"

I guess we all hope that Vestax have developed some cunning way to make those mysteriously titled 4 buttons control the clips in a clear and intuitive way. Of course a clip button matrix is just one way of doing it - who knows, perhaps Vestax have a usable system?
lets hope

My main fear is that it is designed mainly for DJs, which I am not one of.

jonny72
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Post by jonny72 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:05 pm

liveplayer wrote:
diego vega wrote:here http://www.djdeals.com/vestaxVCM600.htm it says COMING SOON and apparently it will be around $800 but still no release date? i like it, but we'll have to see how portable it really is.
No change that I know of. Of course, thats US dollars...
Quite a few retailers in the UK have them listed now, all at the same price - £400.

Schuft
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Post by Schuft » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:09 pm

Angstrom wrote:... I missed this, is it now different than the product shots we have all seen?
or is that the revised version? ...
Here you can see the as far as I know most detailed photos of the current "Musikmesse 2008" layout, which is newer than the more popular but older NAMM layout: http://www.vestax.de/products/produkt_e ... etail=1685

Angstrom wrote: the 4 buttons read "[]" , "of-a" , "of-b", "status" . I have no real idea what they do.
The label "of-a" you saw is acutally "cf-a" and "cf-b", which is the crossfader assignment. The first button you mentioned "[]" means STOP. But they changed the lables and the positions of the buttons in the newer design. Check it out! But I also can't imagine what's the intension of the "Status" button.

Angstrom wrote:I guess we all hope that Vestax have developed some cunning way to make those mysteriously titled 4 buttons control the clips in a clear and intuitive way. Of course a clip button matrix is just one way of doing it - who knows, perhaps Vestax have a usable system?
lets hope
Anyway, you don't have to care in what way they labled the buttons as you can assign them to the software control of your choice. Or am I wrong ? Due to this possibility I think it's only a matter of how much buttons and potis are available per channel.

Angstrom wrote: My main fear is that it is designed mainly for DJs, which I am not one of.
What would you change regarding the current layout ?

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:25 pm

ok, I was more familiar with this layout.

Image


as regarding the DJ-centricity, yikes... read that big caption !

I have never ever used a crossfader in my life, I have no need of one, never will have a need of one. So I really don't need a set of buttons specifically relating to crossfading. I can't actually see the point in dedicating so much hardware surface to a crossfading even for a DJ (on a computer).
I hope all the scratch DJs like midi latency on their fast cuts!

What I would much prefer is that those buttons related to session clips, I would like to see some info on what is available to trigger now and next, some cunning method. Show me clip names, show me parameters. little lights, anything! I would have hoped that a close consultation with Ableton might have got them a few API hooks at least, not just some default midi assignments.

I notice that they removed the recording buttons and put some more bloody DJ functions on there . Hi Cut, Lo cut, etc. Sorry, that's just useless to me. I know I will be able to remap the buttons, but with Live's limited midi mapping/automapping that really wont give me any magical new in depth control over the features I want.
it tells me that Vestax are looking at DJs as their market.


But the biggest failing seems to be that this controller just goes up directly against the BCRs of this world which has very similar abilities but the BCR has the benefit of endless controllers. Potentiometers are all fine until you load up a new set and have to twiddle everything to get a pick-up. The VCM has a few extra buttons, but they don't give me any functionality that is 'special'

So, to my mind the BCR wins against this controller even though the BCR is cheap and less sexy. This VCM has only potentiometers and is limited by being aimed at DJs and not really addressing any of the big problems that people find when tryng to control live without the screen. IE : we will still need to use the session view as a display.

I will have to wait and see if they wise up and ask a few NON-DJs to assess their new product. Hopefully its scope will broaden, even if its too late for the layout maybe they can think of something that will appeal to musician/performers a bit more.

Hell I guess I could always snap that crossfader off!

liveplayer
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Post by liveplayer » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:11 pm

Alas, DJs ARE Vestax's market. Right now, no suitable controller exists to make Live's basic DJ uses available in a compact tactile hardware controller. I believe that is what Vestax is focusing on. There is the Korg Zero8, but it is overkill since it makes many of Live's functions redundant, such as audio bussing and effects. Here is a Vestax rep talking about the purpose and development of the VCM-600, albeit the old version @ NAMM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpCQ6XhzKR0

I plan on using this in a production environment and I can see many uses for an assignable crossfader other than blending between two audio tracks. EMU came out with technology to allow a kind of crossfading between instrument sounds to invent new ones or as an effect to change between patches. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun98/a ... chool.html This is just one effect I'd like to try my hand at in Live.

So many people have so many uses for Live it would be impossible for someone to invent a controller that covered all possibilities and yet had no controllers left over that some user wouldn't need.
Stefan Franke wrote: ... we're convinced that no controller ever could serve the need of every user (nor even overlap 50% of their common needs), since there really are much more ways to use Live that we ever thought of.
That is from one of the guys at Ableton Headquarters as posted at the beginning of the 'Ideas for your ideal Live controller' thread:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight= A lot of great ideas, concepts and philosophies in that thread. I'm curious how Vestax is configuring workflow as clip selection and launching are THE most basic function of Live. This is the perfect situation for equipment manufacturers to play on gearsluts' nerves because we'll be forever waiting for the perfect controller. Then Live upgrades and adds new features we don't have a kind of knob or button for and the cycle starts over.

I think most users will customize their collection of controllers to themselves instead of waiting for a panacea. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I plan to mate the VCM-600 with a Novation ReMOTE 25SL (I've been thinking about two!) and potentially a Monome one of these days. Even if Apple came out with a multitouch monitor yesterday I would still want some knobs and sliders and buttons.
PB G4 1.25Ghz + 1.5GB RAM
Live 7 + Operator & Sampler
Focusrite Saffire LE
A&H Xone:32
Novation ReMOTE 25
Numark TTX
Ms Pinky VSTi

(MB, VCM-600, 25SL & BM6As coming...PB, Xone:32 & 25 going...)

ikeaboy
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Post by ikeaboy » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:29 pm

The music at the start of the youtube clip :roll:

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:42 pm

liveplayer wrote:clip selection and launching are THE most basic function of Live.
yep, well that's my problem with this device. There seems to be nothing but a scene select and a play button for each track. Nothing in the way of display - so we are reliant on the Session view for that. In that regard this VCM is the same as any other controler.
I think most users will customize their collection of controllers to themselves instead of waiting for a panacea..
yep again,
but the missing link is always the clip triggering and visualisation. Until someone makes a decent stab at that then we still don't have the cornerstone of a decent system.

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