Would you like better time stretching than Complex

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
vinkalmann
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Would you like better time stretching than Complex

Post by vinkalmann » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:01 pm

This is from a topic that Angstrom started in the wishlist forum:

"Live has had the Elastique Efficient time-stretching algorithm for a while now (known as "complex" warp mode) . I think that Live should have 'pro' as it has a number of extra features and benefits.

I mean, if Reaper and FruityLoops can afford to license 'Pro' , surely you guys can do it? It seems a bit weak to have only the 'lite' version of the algo and fall behind the competition here.

As we don't have any offline timestretch in Live we could do with a slightly better 'online' one, especially now many people are getting more capable processors. Of course "efficient" is included in "pro" , so anyone with a lesser CPU wouldn't be discriminated against.

Go on, you know you want to.
http://www.zplane.de/index.php?page=des ... -elastique

If you'd like to see this implemented in a future version of Live, please "+1" the link below

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77178
Last edited by vinkalmann on Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Nod
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Re: Would you like better time stretching than "Complex&

Post by Nod » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:07 pm

Nice one Vinkalmann - it occurred to me, before promptly forgetting, that this should've been signposted into the General for more traffic - so props for raising it. This feature applies to everyone - it's not a niche like OSC for example - so go bump and let's get it in there for 7.2.

"after all using a 64 bit engine to sum signals processed with a cut down algo seems, um, a bit daft" - me :)

dave999z
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Post by dave999z » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:54 pm

That link is broken but this one works:

http://www.zplane.de/index.php?page=des ... -elastique


How do you know that (1) Ableton uses this warping technology, and (2) only uses the "efficient" rather than the "pro" version.


(Funny - I had always assumed Ableton pioneered warping, rather than licensing it from someone else. Why don't other DAWs incorporate this? Does Ableton have an exclusive license?)

Nod
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Post by Nod » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:05 pm

dave999z wrote: How do you know that (1) Ableton uses this warping technology, and (2) only uses the "efficient" rather than the "pro" version. (Funny - I had always assumed Ableton pioneered warping, rather than licensing it from someone else. Why don't other DAWs incorporate this? Does Ableton have an exclusive license?)
The info's on the working link you posted Dave999z....scroll down and it's under 'References'. And lots of other DAW's incorporate it - even Reaper, a one man operation/update machine, has it and had it implemented rapidly.

The Phat Conductor
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Post by The Phat Conductor » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:44 pm

+1

complex is useless.
ill gates aka the phat conductor
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher

http://www.illgates.com

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:04 am

dave999z wrote: How do you know that (1) Ableton uses this warping technology, and (2) only uses the "efficient" rather than the "pro" version.

(Funny - I had always assumed Ableton pioneered warping, rather than licensing it from someone else. Why don't other DAWs incorporate this? Does Ableton have an exclusive license?)

Ableton wrote the other methods, such as 'beats' (etc) I think it may have been Gerhard who originally developed them actually (?)
Back before he got his platinum helicopter.

The 'Complex' mode is the only one that is licensed technology, and there is nothing bad about that. It saves on Ableton's dev-time and lets them concentrate on other things.
Back when Complex was introduced, in Live 5, most mac Live users were struggling to get 4 tracks of any kind running on their g4 laptops, and mac users account for slightly over 50% of the userbase.
Now it's a different story and we have the CPU power to cope with a more powerful frequency windowed and time hinted stretcher.

Who knows perhaps there is some political reason behind the lack of an upgrade, perhaps Ableton are working on their own Melodyne killer, perhaps, perhaps ... but lets bug them about it anyway until they make a move.

:twisted:

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:49 am

The Phat Conductor wrote:+1

complex is useless.
not exactly true. put a clip into complex mode and stretch it as far as it'll go and you get some really good bzzzzzzzzzrrrrrrrrrrrccccccckkkkkkk type sounds that the other warp modes don't do nearly the same way, then you pick the part you like and crtl J it and then drag it into your drum track for just a single hit zzzzzrrrrrrrr type buzz roll. sounds pretty sweet sometimes.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

longjohns
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Post by longjohns » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:10 am

I'm all for it, I hate complex also

vinkalmann
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Post by vinkalmann » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:02 pm

dave999z wrote:That link is broken but this one works:

http://www.zplane.de/index.php?page=des ... -elastique
Thanks man, posting fixed!

Here's a link to the demo, try it on on finished tracks, there's a big difference(much less) or artifacts, especially when slowing the track down:

http://www.zplane.de/index.php?page=tec ... -elastique
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icedsushi
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Post by icedsushi » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:15 pm

I'd like to see the premium offline warping option added. One where a dialog box would come up and it would do a render to a new audio file...

This thread is in the General section. Why is it not in the Wishlist section?

Jay_NJ
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Post by Jay_NJ » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:21 pm

Great information. Which one is Digidesign using for Pro Tools? Their elastic audio sounds amazing.

Jeff

vinkalmann
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Post by vinkalmann » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:26 pm

icedsushi wrote:This thread is in the General section. Why is it not in the Wishlist section?
It is in the wishlist section. I'm on a personal crusade to get this implemented and thought some more visibility wouldn't hurt. =) I was asking people to "+1" the posting in the wishlist section.
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[Guide to Mixing in Arrangement View^][Guide to Warping in Ableton Live^]

kineticUk
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Post by kineticUk » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:10 pm

Jay_NJ wrote:Great information. Which one is Digidesign using for Pro Tools? Their elastic audio sounds amazing.
Izotope's is the best. License that and their SRC tonable. Only the best for this Super software!!
Show us the money ableton...go on..show us the mf-in money.
MacBook MacOS Live 9.7.1 Max for Live Push Logic

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:41 pm

vinkalmann wrote:
icedsushi wrote:This thread is in the General section. Why is it not in the Wishlist section?
It is in the wishlist section. I'm on a personal crusade to get this implemented and thought some more visibility wouldn't hurt. =) I was asking people to "+1" the posting in the wishlist section.
yeah, of course that original post was slightly too jargonized

+1 for the improved beat-hinted FFT based frequency windowing algorithm with formant preservation 3rd party licensing issue !

;)

ernene
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Post by ernene » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:56 pm

I've voted there and I'll do it here...

+1

That should be a "must do" for L7.5 (or before) No need to wait for another year... It's something that touches Live in it's soul, should be the most important thing to do...

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