MacBook Pro FW Chipset

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:17 am

This was covered awhile ago but we need to keep the heat on Apple.

As you may or may not know, the last batch of MBPs and MBs used the Agere FW chip rather than the super stable TI chipset. iMacs are ok as are the MacPros.

This swicth has caused massive problems with FW on this generation of Mac lappies, shooting to hell the rock solid stability Macs had with FW in the past, soooooo send Cupertino a mail stating how this FW problem is going to affect your purchasing decision.

Feedback link is here:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

Apple would probably be extremely sensitive to a bad PR storm about Macs being problematic for audio production as so much of their whole marketing and positioning is that they are perfect for creative production and work out of the box with everything!

timothyallan · Post by **timothyallan** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:42 am

Who is having problems? Mine works great with a Motu828 Mkii and an Echo Audiofire 2.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:44 am

Yeah man, not all soundcard and such have issues with that chipset.

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:40 am

I know that not all interfaces are having problems, but enough are.

This regards MBP's and MB from around November onwards. My MBP works fine also, but I want to upgrade in the next 6 months and really do not want issues!

Check out the link for the thread at Gearslutz.

LINK

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:50 am

Yes, pressure should be kept on Apple.

It's a slippery slope - you allow this, then next you'll end up with the real garbage that fills up most PC laptops. super cheap ENE and ricohs which are only designed for people to transfer digital pictures not for optimal audio performance. And whether or not your computer may not be adversely affected, there is a higher number of complaints and issues since Apple made the shortsighted decision to switch.

They ought to know, using one consistent, solid firewire set is what has given them a rock solid reputation for using firewire protocol for professional audio use, this is why PCs that don't use TI sets are often very flaky and all over the place, making it hard to write good drivers for audio interface manufacturers.

TI chipsets are the best.

ekwipt · Post by **ekwipt** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:28 am

I've been reading that TI chipsets are a little outdated and they haven't made much progress on power reduction. however the agere chipset is less "power hungry" and probably another reason Apple chose to go with them.

That and they have asses tighter than a.....

Is it apples fault manufacturers like rme and motu can't write compatible drivers with firewire that has passed http://www.1394ta.org/index.html "firewire standards"

Who's fault is it?

inmazevo · Post by **inmazevo** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:57 pm

I was under the impression that all Santa Rosa consumer-grade Macs and laptops had Agere chips, including the iMacs.

Is this not correct? If not, where did this information come from?

In any event, I agree:
I want TI.

While I agree that manufacturers should attempt to write drivers/firmware that works with chips other than TI, my biggest problem with the Agere chipset is the low power.

Saving power sounds like a good idea, until you realize that you can't bus power your bus-powered audio interface. Why lower the power output so much that your 6-pin FW port acts like a 4-pin Firewire port.

However, this will likely blow over in the next 18 months or so. Manufacturers will figure out how to make their stuff work, both with the chipset and with lower power levels (I hope). But, depending on what you have now, and whether it works, you might be looking at an investment sooner than you'd planned.

I doubt they'll switch back anytime soon... contracts and all that probably make that difficult. I bet they already bought a bunch of them.

- zevo

suspended childhood · Post by **suspended childhood** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:14 pm

I just called MOTU because this is a concern of mine as well.

I have a MBP that is about a year old. I run an Ultralite with it and it is rock solid.

I also want to buy an additional MBP and Ultralite for a back up at my gigs. I have been hesitant to make either purchase due to the chatter about this firewaire issue.

MOTU says they have tested all of their products on all of the new Macs with and without 10.5 and they have NO problems at all with any of the drivers.

Just my 2 cents.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:02 pm

How many sample computers do you think they test on? I doubt they extend that soak test to hundreds of computers. TI chipsets have been tried and tested for years, the Agere chipsets are not put in there to increase performance, they are a cost cutting measure, like the PC manufacturers have been doing for at least 2 years on average.

What is the priority - higher battery life (most of us run laptops on AC power when recording anyway, battery power severely compromises the amount of tracks and plugins you can run, although for a DJing set it is a compromise that is often taken as they don't require as much complexity or track counts) OR better audio performance ?

And MOTU are only one manufacturer of firewire interfaces.

BinaryB · Post by **BinaryB** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:45 pm

Tarekith wrote:Yeah man, not all soundcard and such have issues with that chipset.

But you sound like you know that it is a lower quality chipset...
So why bother posting "it works fine for me"

I dont use a MBP for this reason and I wont until I see the Firewire is reliable AGAIN !

So I am still on my P4 1.5ghz laptop

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:38 pm

I don't know it's a lower quality actually, I could care less as long as it works, and for a lot of soundcards out there, it's working fine. Even the link above makes it sound more like the soundcard manufacturer's fault, than Apple's. I think you guys might just be barking up the wrong tree, that's all. If you think Apple's going to change their firewre chipset because it's not compatible with only a handful of soundcards, well....

Considering the new MBP's are working with some of the largest soundcard makers for the Mac, and one of those is partnered with Apple (ie, MOTU and Apogee), you're not going to get much done going that route. You're better off lobbying the manufacturers that are directly affected.

bensuthers · Post by **bensuthers** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:02 pm

no issues here at all.

Sturm in einem teacup.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:36 am

That's great for you - but some combinations of firewire interface and the the Agere chipset seemingly have brought on extra problems, there have been plenty of complaints in this forum. Just like Live 7.0.1 and 7.0.2 have been working fine for me, I'm not in denial that the software is really great and bug free yet when I read about so many others having issues.

It just depends on the software>hardware combination. But this has been a strength of owning a Mac, not having to be involved in a conflicting hardware crapshoot like PC owners, it seems senseless to save a couple of bucks per computer to make that change.

Eventually other audio card manufacturers will have had time to work with the Agere chipset and adjust their drivers if need be but it causes an unnecessary complication and in the meantime, puts Apple in a negative light. They ought to know that they have a huge share of the pro audio market and if it ain't broken, don't fix it....

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:16 am

A huge share of the pro audio market is still an absolute tiny percentage of their total users. Look, I'm not saying Apple is right, or that the situation is the way it should be. I'm just saying that the fact that some audio card manufacturers have managed to get around the issue means that it's not a systematic failure, and it's going to be a waste of time trying to petition Apple to fix it. Especially since it's saving them money the new way.

The only real chance you guys have is talking to the manufacturers of the problematic cards, trying to get them to either fix their hardware, or talk to Apple themselves. I guarantee Apple is going to be a lot more responsive to them, than you.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:50 am

Tarekith, I respect you and your music and intelligence but niche markets are huge for Apple. Take out the graphic design and pro audio users from the Apple user base and you're taking a massive chunk out of them as a company. It might pale in comparison to their Ipod sales but they would feel that hit in the marketplace and volatility on the stock exchange.

They need people to tell them that it's not OK to cheapen their products when it reflects on them in a bad way, just as I need my wife or friends to tell me that 10 year old Hawaiian shirt I love does not look cool with dress pants and Jesus sandals at a Rave, if my own filtering isn't working.

Apple are not above criticism, although they have never really given a hoot about it's userbase anyway, they routinely just change things, like whole operating systems, chipsets, interface protocols and processor types without consulting their users, because many people will just fanboy their way through the changes and shell out another ton of money at the cult of Apple.