Richie Hawtin & Ableton

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Re: Richie Hawtin & Ableton

Post by Guest » Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:55 pm

Lucid wrote:
Marqx wrote:
is it true that it is possible to let sound coming from the mixer run trough ableton so that you are able to use the ableton effects on it?
are these things? effects of some sort maybe?

quote]


Unless I'm mistaken, you should be able to monitor incoming audio with effects through Live if you are able to achieve a very low latency with your audio hardware. I believe I've read the RME Hammerfall achieves the lowest possible latency. Turn on "Monitor through Live" in ableton options, turn off Direct Monitoring in your audio hardware if your audio hardware supports it, and reduce the latency to the lowest possible number by using an extremely small buffer and 96khz. Then just turn on the monitor switch for a track with live inputs and effects.
Thanx for all the response!

I am thinking of buying the M-Audio Firewire 410 to work with as the Hammerfall is very expensive.. would this do the trick? or is the latency to high?

My setup i'm putting together is:

I already own 2 SL1210M5G's
I already own NI Final Scratch running on a Dell Inspiron 5100 Laptop
I Ordered the A&H Xone 92 (will be in next week)
I Ordered the Redsound Soundbit (follow up of the c-loops, will be in tomorrow)
I Already own a Sony Vaio FX 702 Notebook

I want to expand with (if it does the trick):

- Ableton live, running on the Vaio (20gb, 256mb ram, 1400+ (1.2G) Athlon XP processor

- M-Audio Firewire 410 soundcard

- Evolution UC-33e

I was thinking abou letting one aux output of the Xone run through ableton by using the line-in on the FW-410 running to the aux fader to use the (plug-inn) effects of ableton on the tunes i am playing and use another output of the FW-410 to play the loops and samples from ableton.. i want to controll al this from the evolution..

i have this all in theory in my head but do you guys agree it will work?? this is costing me my life savings so i want to be sure ;)

Marqx
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Post by Marqx » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:02 am

The Guest was me again.. i now registered..

drush
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Post by drush » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:07 am

the fw410 won't be a problem regarding latency.

and maybe i'm confused about the latter part of what you want to do (loops etc in ableton in addition to using it as an efx box) but why the uc33? seems like you should be able to control what you need to from the 92 and deal with loops on the c-loops (or whatever it's called now.. mine's the old cyc-loops).

...that's not to say a uc33 isn't very handy to have around. it is. but in a dj-ish world, unless you are going to do hdj style sets totally in ableton, i'm not clear on what you want it for when you have the 92.

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Post by smutek » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:51 am

Marqx wrote:The Guest was me again.. i now registered..
Lucky bastard!

I want one! My wife is going to kill me when I tell her.

Hmmm, I wonder how much I can get for my pioneer djm 500?

:P

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Post by effekt » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:37 am

drush wrote:the fw410 won't be a problem regarding latency.

and maybe i'm confused about the latter part of what you want to do (loops etc in ableton in addition to using it as an efx box) but why the uc33? seems like you should be able to control what you need to from the 92 and deal with loops on the c-loops (or whatever it's called now.. mine's the old cyc-loops).

...that's not to say a uc33 isn't very handy to have around. it is. but in a dj-ish world, unless you are going to do hdj style sets totally in ableton, i'm not clear on what you want it for when you have the 92.
i haven't tried to send the output of my mixer through live, but 'in theory' it should work (i have a 410 as well).
as far as having the uc33 around...i'm pretty sure that you can't actually control any of the parameters of Live with the 92 (that's what rich has the other row of knobs for (you can see the silver knobs on the far left side of the picture posted earlier)).
the uc33 (or in my case an oxy 8) could be used to control the parameters of the psp42/84 or whatever effects you choose to use...
you wouldn't even need the 92 if you were only using Live as an effects box, since the purpose of the 92 would be for midi out...it would be necessary however if you wished to mix records with loops from ableton.

that's how it works in my head...i could be way off base though..
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M-Audio Oxy 8
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Post by bigbadotis » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:51 am

I don't get low latencies with my 410, it starts to crackle in Live when I get below 12ms on the input.

This could be because I'm running on a 800 Mhz g4 PB though... are Windows people getting much better results?

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Post by drush » Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:46 am

he definitely is controlling the efx box (ableton computer, in this case) with the 92 (or 62). but maye that's why his mixers are further customized... never really looked hard enough at the 92 features to be sure. but i'm sure about the first part ;)

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Post by effekt » Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:51 am

drush wrote:he definitely is controlling the efx box (ableton computer, in this case) with the 92 (or 62). but maye that's why his mixers are further customized... never really looked hard enough at the 92 features to be sure. but i'm sure about the first part ;)
yeah...i don't know about the 92, i haven't actually seen it but the 62 has an extra row of knobs which are used strickly for midi...i.e. to control effects. so i'd imagine that the 92 is similar....but i don't know where he'd put the extra knobs....it looks to be jam packed already.
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40GB 5400rpm modular HD
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Post by Marqx » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:49 am

I have done a LOT of research on the Xone and even contacted some users.. for example this is an email exchange with Chris Liebing about the mixer:

I Asked him about the usebility of the MIDI of the Xone.. this is the answer:

Hi!

the Midi function of the xone 92 is usable, but if you wanna control more than 3 things at a time , then its better to use a midi controler. the start/stop function is not really in super timing, also the tap function, but maybe I did not really get used to it, since I use another controler for that (Griffin Powermate).

My next question was:

(me) So you don't use the MIDI from the Xone but you use a midi controller.. what midi controller do you use? and do you use ableton to play loops or to play whole tracks?

(Chris) right now a doepfer, but also check www.faderfox.de.. my set up allows me to do a lot of things....I can drop loops, samples or only use some effect plug inns over the tunes I am playing...

(me) Do you use the powermate to start/stop the sequencer in ableton?

(chris) no, too slow for that, I use the space bar.

(me) And to up or slow down the speed in ableton

(chris) no, I rather change the speed of the record slightly. I put down the current bpm in Ableton and start on the beat with space bar. rest adjustment with vinyl.

Else I can say, that the Xone 92 is the best mixer I have ever played on...

Hope that helps,

cheers,

Chris
...that's not to say a uc33 isn't very handy to have around. it is. but in a dj-ish world, unless you are going to do hdj style sets totally in ableton, i'm not clear on what you want it for when you have the 92.
The reason that the Xone is the best option anyway to use with the Ableton setup are the two seprate auxilery faders.. when i want to drop effects from ableton over my tunes i want to use the aux fader and when i use loops or samples from ableton i want to use a regular fader wich i can then again asign to the aux fader for the effects.. i want to be able to just drop loops and effects in my dj set but i want also to be able to do a complete live part once in a while..

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Post by effekt » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:25 pm

thanks...that clears a few things up for me.
so there are only a few things on the 92 that can actually control any midi parameters (crossfader, vcf 1&2, lfo, and the start/stop button)?
if not, how many knobs/faders can i use to control midi? and which ones?
ideally i'd like to use the two mic channels on the far left of the 92, but i'm sure that's just wish full thinking.
if anyone knows the info would be greatly appreciated
Win XP Pro
2.5M P4
1Gb RAM
60GB 5400rpm HD
40GB 5400rpm modular HD
M-Audio Firewire 410
M-Audio Oxy 8
Ableton 3.0

Marqx
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Post by Marqx » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:53 pm

effekt wrote:thanks...that clears a few things up for me.
so there are only a few things on the 92 that can actually control any midi parameters (crossfader, vcf 1&2, lfo, and the start/stop button)?
if not, how many knobs/faders can i use to control midi? and which ones?
ideally i'd like to use the two mic channels on the far left of the 92, but i'm sure that's just wish full thinking.
if anyone knows the info would be greatly appreciated
The two mic/aux faders on the far left are NOT useble for ableton as they don't support MIDI.. unfortunately..

the only things you can use are the VCF 1 and VCF 2 and the crossfader..

the LFO tap is used to tap in a tempo in ableton and the start/stop button is used to start the sequencer.. the data control knob is used to change the tempo in ableton (slightly)

these are the only things that support MIDI on the Xone 92..

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Post by drush » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:03 pm

drush wrote:
Boxerfresse wrote:there is no special Version for MR. Hawtin . . .sorry but there is realy no special Version . .
yeah, actually there is. he's using it right now. whether or not that is ever a production model, even on a limited basis, i have no idea.
Boxerfresse wrote:and believe the 62`s Version has no Midi Features . . .
richie's 62 mixer was customized for him. by his father. so no, there was no midi version of the 62. except for the 2 in existence that are.
browsing thru the pics that were first mentioned in this thread... just for entertainment value, this picture shows how his 62 was customized

http://www.party-ludwigshafen.de/page_p ... 5&seite=35

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Whoa!

Post by radder » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:19 pm

Wow there's a Red Sound CycLoops in that picture! I had one of those, they are fun as hell... too bad they didn't have MIDI sync. :(
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Post by sWEETsAM » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:29 pm

I own a xone 92.
It is really hard to tap/sync on the mixer with the tap button.

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Post by AdamJay » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:49 pm

why not just assign the tap tempo in Live to any computer key, put a UC-16 above the mixer on a Griffin iCurve. and use any mixer you want?

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