BCF2000 question

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:33 am

Hi,

I have got one additional question about BCF2000 that is not answered in the various threads.
Imagine I have got a 10 tracks Project to mix.
I would use the BCF2000 in Mackie Mode.
For the first 8 tracks I will use Bank 1. What happens when I want to control
tracks 9 & 10? I would say that the motorized faders of the BCF2000 as soon as I switch bank will move faders 1&2 to the values reflected by tracks 9&10.
Is this true? Otherwise I do not understand the usefulness of motorized faders.

- Best
- Pasha

PS : I still haven't decided what could be the proper controller for me. Tried Novation Zero SL in the store but out-of-box a couple of knobs didn't work. It was the last piece so I left it in the store. That's why the more I wait... more questions arise... sorry...

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:00 pm

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:53 pm

2nd BUMP

randrohe · Post by **randrohe** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:34 pm

Yes, that is correct.. If I understand your question

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:44 pm

Yes, that is precisely what would happen.

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:47 pm

Yep. Mackie mode on the BCF is brilliant that way.

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:46 am

Thanks guys. That's really what I needed.
I think that at this point I don't have any other chance than to go BCF.
At this point if you have to mix 10-14 tracks with ease the only path is moto-faders. I do not want to fiddle with faders without feedback when I switch tracks back & forth. However, when using moto-faders do I have to fight against them or disengage motors before using them or it's an automatic process (when data comes in BCF moves the faders, when I move the faders there's no counterforce to win)?

- Best
- Pasha

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:09 am

Unfortunately there's slight counter force on the BCF if it's receiveing automation from the host. More expensive controllers have the touch sliders that disengage the motors upon physichal force.

At this price point I had no problems dealing with it, though.

-M

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:37 am

I don't have mine available right now to double check, but I think it actually will just shift to 3-10 as the bank, when there are only 10 tracks...

but you can shift the bank in single track increments anyway

and yes, as noted it is a bit aggravating to try to overdub volume automation because the faders don't know when to release

on that note I'm a proponent of recording volume automation to a utility plugin rather than the track faders. this dodges the whole issue on the motorized faders, and always leaves them available for general mixing of levels and keeps fades, etc separate.

xzusa8ky · Post by **xzusa8ky** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:45 pm

That's Correct!

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:14 pm

Thanks! You're really helping me a lot.
My understanding so far:

Motofaders=Counterforce if automation on the track.
General Mixing = Move Levels without recording any automation just like you'd do on a analog Mixer. General Mixing it's ok. If you mix track 1 at -2db and you switch forth and back the fader on track 1 still reports -2b.
On UC-33 or Novation zero SL, you do not have motofaders but you should expect jumps when switching banks, but you are not recording automation so using pick up mode you should be safe. So what's the best deal?
NonMotoFaders or Motofaders for general mixing (no automation recording)?

- Best
- Pasha

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:44 pm

I've owned both the BCF and the UC-33. I'd go behringer. Definitely.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:45 am

I would expect that by using pickup mode and switching banks, you'd often be "exploring' for where the pickup value is...

is it higher?

is it lower?

*moves fader around*

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:40 am

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:I've owned both the BCF and the UC-33. I'd go behringer. Definitely.

Interesting point here.
As I wrote sometime ago when I was in Malmoe I bought a wonderful Windstopper to protect me from the icy winds... so I have a big respect for Malmoers suggestions.

I was almost going UC-33 when I saw your message. I was thinking that UC-33 despite not being motofader (I should copyright this motofader word before Motorola makes a Phone MIDI Touch screen controller out of it) could have offered me more controls for the bucks. I am sure that the mouse is still the better option for automation refinements and my controller should be capable of two usages, while composing I don't need more than 8 tracks and the ability to tweak Rack Macros and this is the standard instant mapping for all Novation, UC-33 and BCF/BCR and so it's hardly a difference. When mixing, usually up to 16 tracks I need to set the volume of every track. This means that I do not record any Track Volume Automation. Simply, I put the fader at the right volume and save the set. With motofaders I can easily switch Banks back & forth without any hassle. Once the faders are set I can be sure that I start from the right position where I left it. However I do not mix live I mix at home. That's why I thought that an UC-33e can give me more knobs/faders even if not motorized. I'm not sure if UC-33 has bank switching ala BCF and so would be able to manage more than 8 tracks using instant mapping (I have got many sets to mix and I don't want to go through remapping one by one).
Based on this last info would you still suggest me BCF2000? After browsing the forum I got the perception that BCF and Live 7 don't get along. Many reports problems in Live 7 that weren't there in Live 6. I'm probably wrong but I would like a word from you.

Thanks for your time!

- Best
- Pasha

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:10 am

Hi Pasha!

I do respect your purchase of a wind-stopper-jacket in Malmö (and I remember way back when we first talked about it). It's the fucking windiest city in the world. And it never blows in your favour. Against the wind to work. Against the wind back from work.

Nevermind...

I've sold my BCF (because of the Lemur), so I haven't used it with Live 7 really. Only during the betas. And in Mackie mode I can't recall any problems. But I have been wrong a couple of times before.

I don't really wanna be the one talking you into this or that. But I think, if I understand you correctly, that I'd still go for the BCF. I left mine in Mackie mode for the last year I owned it. Simple. And I don't play live either. But even if you wanna do classic, manual mapping (yeah, the controls are fewer than on the UC-33) I like the flow of it. The four banks of knobs on top, the motorized faders and LED indicated switches did it for me.

It comes down to what you prefer - definitely subjective - and a lot a people on here love the UC-33. I'd go BCF!

Cheers,
M