how to roll your own Operator drums

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Toob
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Post by Toob » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:31 pm

I think that answered UKRuss's question.. can we go back to the original question? It was really getting interesting with C.S.'s and michaellpenman's posts! Want more :P.

By the way.. marvotron posted this 808 emulation at KVR: http://relivethefuture.com/music/patche ... 8-v0.7.zip

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:55 pm

forge wrote:yeah the only reason is tweakability

if you want more real or recognisable drums you are probably far better off using samples - you can still do a hell of a lot to them with Si/ampler
I think everyone knows about drum samples.

why bother? two reasons:
- a purely academic study of Operator to train my ears and hands
- the joy of using something you made from scratch


some cool tips, thanks!! can't wait to try them later.
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rhythminmind
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Post by rhythminmind » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:31 pm

I'll post my synthetic operator kit tonight. For those interested I made some Live packs of my kits that are fun to mangle.
http://www.rhythminmind.net/drumsamples.html
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pip
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Post by pip » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:57 pm

Check out the inside synthesis videos if you have a chance:

http://insidesynthesis.blogspot.com/ (also on SonicState)

Episode 4 is specific to FM synths like Operator, but in Episode 1 he builds a drum machine patch using an MS-2000, and the methods can be almost directly applied to Operator with a little tweaking.

Ideally the not-yet-made Episode 5 should be exactly what you're looking for. :-)

dcease
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Post by dcease » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:00 pm

this thread is good for a link. thanks guys!

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:03 pm

OK, well for anyone unfamiliar with the Sound on Sound "synth Secrets" articles ...


Practical bass drum synthesis
Practical percussion synthesis
practical snare drum synthesis
Practical Cymbal Synthesis
Analysing Metallic Percussion

there are many, many more in the series.

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:08 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
forge wrote:yeah the only reason is tweakability

if you want more real or recognisable drums you are probably far better off using samples - you can still do a hell of a lot to them with Si/ampler
I think everyone knows about drum samples.

why bother? two reasons:
- a purely academic study of Operator to train my ears and hands
- the joy of using something you made from scratch


some cool tips, thanks!! can't wait to try them later.
I dont know how you got 'dont bother' from that - I use Operator for drums, I was saying it depends on what are you wanting to create - what types of drum sounds? Different things work better for different jobs

If you want cymbals, unless you really want a really synthetic sounding one then you are probably better with samples - that;s why the 909 uses sampled cymbals, because inharmonic sounds are really hard to synthesise

the 808 used 6 oscillators playing pulse waves with some kindof clever circuitry and band pass filters and a high pass to make it's cymbal, but that one still sounds synthetic - but again, like I said, that might be what you want

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:10 pm

Toob wrote:I think that answered UKRuss's question.. can we go back to the original question? It was really getting interesting with C.S.'s and michaellpenman's posts! Want more :P.

By the way.. marvotron posted this 808 emulation at KVR: http://relivethefuture.com/music/patche ... 8-v0.7.zip
well done that man! Good job

again - notice the absense of cymbal! :wink: [edit: just looked more closely at the Hi-Hat - he used 6 oscillators!! so there ya go!]

take a look at the clap - that;s an interesting one

if you look at the waveform in the 'drum machines' bundle at the clap the attack has about 4 peaks - claps have this kind of flamming attack - called 'roll in' in marvotron's kit - he's used an arpeggiator to create it - I've used a simple delay before set to 'time' and with the delay time around 20ms

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:35 pm

here's a good article by Craig Anderton

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document ... c=3SOSWXXA

Tytus
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Post by Tytus » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:35 pm

Toob wrote:Nice topic! I'm trying to master Operator myself. You could read Live's lessons about Operator as well.

And that is really cool C.S. and Michaell!!!
dont mean to hijack but...

where/how do i read these lessons?? been looking for them all over and http://www.ableton.com/pages/instrument ... to_operate <---page doesnt provide links...did i miss something in the demo install?

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:36 pm

Tytus wrote:
Toob wrote:Nice topic! I'm trying to master Operator myself. You could read Live's lessons about Operator as well.

And that is really cool C.S. and Michaell!!!
dont mean to hijack but...

where/how do i read these lessons?? been looking for them all over and http://www.ableton.com/pages/instrument ... to_operate <---page doesnt provide links...did i miss something in the demo install?
in the help menu in Live

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:46 pm

forge wrote:I dont know how you got 'dont bother' from that
<insert 'the internet is a lousy form of communication' comment>
I shouldn't have phrased my question with the word 'bother' it links it too strongly to your post.


cool tips, thanks to you!!
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Toob
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Post by Toob » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:55 pm

forge wrote:
Tytus wrote:
Toob wrote:Nice topic! I'm trying to master Operator myself. You could read Live's lessons about Operator as well.

And that is really cool C.S. and Michaell!!!
dont mean to hijack but...

where/how do i read these lessons?? been looking for them all over and http://www.ableton.com/pages/instrument ... to_operate <---page doesnt provide links...did i miss something in the demo install?
in the help menu in Live
That's right!

Tytus
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Post by Tytus » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:12 am

forge wrote: in the help menu in Live
Sorry...dont see em. Looking in the "all lessons" and "table of contents". no mention of operator. whats the path exactly? i know abes dont make it this hard to find tutorials...

Toob
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Post by Toob » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:18 am

Tytus wrote:
forge wrote: in the help menu in Live
Sorry...dont see em. Looking in the "all lessons" and "table of contents". no mention of operator. whats the path exactly? i know abes dont make it this hard to find tutorials...
In Live 7 go to the lessons, scroll down and click on "More Lessons...". Then you'll see a Table of Contents in which you can scroll down again untill you see the Operator heading. Underneath it there will be 6 short lessons. Have you installed Live and Operator properly?

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