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Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:32 pm
by forge
time to Image

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:34 pm
by stringtapper
popslut wrote:[...]when I sit down to read somebody's thoughts on an interesting topic, only watch it degenerate into the usual whining and bullshitting makes me lose the will to live.
That's really encouraging. Works a little slower than an asteroid, but with persistence it just might work.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:40 am
by drewbixcube
Back to some semblance of a topic:
Landwhale wrote: ...The media doesn't like to talk about a lot of other things, here's one little nugget for you to chew on, I believe someone has posted this here before.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1959
Now, after reading this, please realize that this is not some conspiracy theory, this is getting close to becoming actual law. If/when it does, these OT forum threads could actually become LEGALLY classifiable as homegrown terrorism, since there is no CLEAR definition of what homegrown terrorism is in the bill.
Also, for those of you who are quick to call conspiracy theory, keep in mnd the fact that the majority of your representatives already passed this in the house, so I think that is pretty telling of where they stand in regards to protecting your "freedom".
If you think this is for your protection from terrorists and bad-guys, I feel sorry for you, no joke, from the bottom of my heart...
I can be very skeptical at times, so I checked out the link to the above bill from Landwhale, and here's what I found:
SEC. 899A. DEFINITIONS wrote:
(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.

(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.
I also found this:
SEC. 899E. PROTECTING CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES WHILE PREVENTING IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM wrote:
(a) In General- In carrying out this subtitle, the Secretary shall ensure that the efforts of the Department to prevent ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism as described in this subtitle do not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, and civil liberties of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents.

(b) Commitment to Racial Neutrality- The Secretary shall ensure that the activities and operations of the entities created by this subtitle are in compliance with the commitment of the Department to racial neutrality.

(c) Auditing Mechanism- The Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Officer of the Department shall develop and implement an auditing mechanism to ensure that compliance with this subtitle does not result in a disproportionate impact, without a rational basis, on any particular race, ethnicity, or religion and include the results of its audit in its annual report to Congress required under section 705.
Landwhale, I didn't quote your post in its entirety because a lot of what you said resonates with me. I do, however think that this bill has been thoughtfully laid out and makes a certain amount of sense. You're right in that it is not a conspiracy and will most likely get passed, but also keep in mind (thankfully for us) that the same people who write the bills are not the ones interpreting them; we leave that to the judges. I think its safe to say, given the above definition of homegrown terrorism, that even stringtapper will be allowed to continue posting his thoughts on destroying the human race.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:54 am
by leisuremuffin
this is the best forum ever.



.lm.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:01 am
by kramerica
Tone Deft wrote:the GOP is completely fucked up, there's the value voters (they vote how Jesus tells them to vote), there's the glass desert voters (McCain who wants to stay in Iraq forever and kill all them foreigners) then there's the money voters like Kramerica who want tax cuts.
:?

I've been voting Democrat since I've been allowed and have actually been trying (applying) to work for Obama's Senate Office since he joined Congress. That doesn't mean I like Democrats or hate Republicans but I've been given little choice in my few years of eligible voting.

That being said, I'd like to pay lower taxes on principle (40% of my income is a lot) because the government mismanages just about everything and I see very little of my tax dollars at work aside from the explosions in foreign countries I see on the news every so often. I'm not going to see social security. I don't need a nation with thousands of nukes. I think medicare and medicaid is grossly inefficient. I don't like the Department of the Fatherland or funding a new big brother domestic spy network. I don't want to pay for that shit. Local and State government pays for most things we enjoy (police, fire, infrastructure, schools, etc.) and need only minimal tax revenues from us. Why does the federal government take so much and return so little?

And, FYI, I think you have to be a registered Dem. or Rep. to vote for that party in the primary. I don't think you can just switch willy nilly to try and sabotage the opposing party. It may depend on state to state though as far as rules.

Also, to the author: I'm originally from Sandusky (45 min. from Cleveland) and my parents (independent/conservative people) just voted for Obama in the primary. They knew he wouldn't win though because everyone they talked to said they liked Hillery more. I heard nothing of a sabotage vote. Ohio is an enigma - you can't predict how people will vote there.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:07 am
by b0unce
kramer is a racist pig.
america kills brown people daily with the world's most sophisticated weaponry.

1 + 1 = 666


please change your nick to something less offensive, like....CommunismRules or something.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:10 am
by kramerica
b0unce wrote:kramer is a racist pig.
america kills brown people daily with the world's most sophisticated weaponry.

1 + 1 = 666


please change your nick to something less offensive, like....CommunismRules or something.
I'm confused. "Kramerica" is a reference from the comedy show "Seinfeld".

Image

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:05 am
by Landwhale
drewbixcube wrote:Back to some semblance of a topic:
Landwhale wrote: ...The media doesn't like to talk about a lot of other things, here's one little nugget for you to chew on, I believe someone has posted this here before.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1959
Now, after reading this, please realize that this is not some conspiracy theory, this is getting close to becoming actual law. If/when it does, these OT forum threads could actually become LEGALLY classifiable as homegrown terrorism, since there is no CLEAR definition of what homegrown terrorism is in the bill.
Also, for those of you who are quick to call conspiracy theory, keep in mnd the fact that the majority of your representatives already passed this in the house, so I think that is pretty telling of where they stand in regards to protecting your "freedom".
If you think this is for your protection from terrorists and bad-guys, I feel sorry for you, no joke, from the bottom of my heart...
I can be very skeptical at times, so I checked out the link to the above bill from Landwhale, and here's what I found:
SEC. 899A. DEFINITIONS wrote:
(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.

(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.
I also found this:
SEC. 899E. PROTECTING CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES WHILE PREVENTING IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM wrote:
(a) In General- In carrying out this subtitle, the Secretary shall ensure that the efforts of the Department to prevent ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism as described in this subtitle do not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, and civil liberties of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents.

(b) Commitment to Racial Neutrality- The Secretary shall ensure that the activities and operations of the entities created by this subtitle are in compliance with the commitment of the Department to racial neutrality.

(c) Auditing Mechanism- The Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Officer of the Department shall develop and implement an auditing mechanism to ensure that compliance with this subtitle does not result in a disproportionate impact, without a rational basis, on any particular race, ethnicity, or religion and include the results of its audit in its annual report to Congress required under section 705.
Landwhale, I didn't quote your post in its entirety because a lot of what you said resonates with me. I do, however think that this bill has been thoughtfully laid out and makes a certain amount of sense. You're right in that it is not a conspiracy and will most likely get passed, but also keep in mind (thankfully for us) that the same people who write the bills are not the ones interpreting them; we leave that to the judges. I think its safe to say, given the above definition of homegrown terrorism, that even stringtapper will be allowed to continue posting his thoughts on destroying the human race.
I see your point, my concern is not so much the immediate results of these kinds of bills, it's the GREAT possibility/probability of their abuse and misinterpretation in the years to come. I'm not worried about the bill passing on Thursday, and everyone who posts a comment on a forum being hauled away on Friday. :lol: Obviously that won't happen.

What is DEFINITELY going to happen however, is that these kinds of bills will STRONGLY reinforce fear of dissent in the vast majority of the country's citizens, and put a virtual fucking stranglehold on protesting and grassroot's movements as well as the internet. It's simple. If a website, forum, emails, etc. are deemed as harboring threats of homegrown terrorism, well, what do you think will happen to said website, forum, etc.? They'll be shut down, bandwidth limited, flooded with server requests to slow them to a crawl, etc. whether it's done legally or illegally. My guess is that it will be done LEGALLY, backed by these wonderful new bills :D

It's the same type of shit that is going on with the torrents, P2P, etc. Of course there will always be computer geniuses that will be at least one step ahead, and will keep a lot of things up and running, so by no means is all lost. But, where will we be in 10 years, for real?
I know it doesn't sound pretty, but is it really that far fetched? Would you have imagined 10 years ago that ordinary citizens would be getting sued for ridiculous sums by major record labels?

Here's the thing. Read these next few lines and really think about it for a minute.
HOMEGROWN TERRORISM[/b]- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
By the above definition, it is NOT a stretch in any sense to consider organized political dissent, protest, grassroots movements, petitioning, etc. to be "planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

Key points here are in the choice of words like "force".
One can easily apply this word to a large gathering of citizens that are protesting, as they would quite literally HAVE to be using either "force" or "threatened use of force" to "intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political OR social objectives", otherwise it wouldn't even be a protest at all for fuck's sake!

The "United States government, civilian population of the United States, or ANY SEGMENT THEREOF" literally translates to "anyone and everyone living in the country", again, by no stretch of the words at all. Just read it aloud and acknowledge the definitions :)

Once this is in place, an ordinary, law-abiding citizen participating in a protest could be DEFINABLE BY LAW as a "Homegrown Terrorist Threat", at the very least.

And again, this is not an exaggeration. This is absolutely NOT ridiculous, unwarranted paranoia. This is literal interpretation of the bill as it stands.

I understand there are threats to America's security, but how far do we go here, really?
At what point do you lose what you are supposedly trying to protect?

Who's truly the biggest potential threat to "our country" (a.k.a. The United States government)? hint
What segment of the American population has the overwhelming numbers and advantage to pose a serious threat to "the country's" stability? hint hint

Who REALLY stands to lose THEIR freedoms, wealth, and power if this ENORMOUS HOMEGROWN NETWORK were to ever get out of line and attempt to use "force" to "intimidate or coerce the United States government in furtherance of their political or social objectives"? hint hint hint hint hint

I wonder if anyone is still reading at this point? 8O :)
Okay, well I think that's enough of my opinion for a little while. I need to sharpen my shit-talking skills, then maybe I'd make a few friends. :idea:
Oh fuck it, let me have a go!
Eat shit, all of you! You don't know me at all, sniff :cry:.
:twisted: Oh yeah, and I diggity-DOINKED ALL of your mothers and they were ALL miserable in bed... but THEY sure loved the FEEL of my velocity-sensitive, Ableton Live tattoo laden "custom controller" :wink:

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:12 am
by thefool
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ba0qgNNRhH0

The clash - straight to hell.

surprisingly relevant

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:39 am
by Olga
Bush is an idiot and the war in Iraq is insane but


Lets get real here. You put Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong Ill or Hugo chavez in charge of a military the size of the usa and we'd all be living like Mad Max right now. These nuts make bush look like the virgin mary.

end of story

wake up.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:10 am
by thefool
Image

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:57 pm
by nathannn
Tone Deft wrote::roll:
check your posts natthann, you're an asshole, always popping in to take a shit but never say anything worth reading.

you and max, right...

omfg I looked at your myspace
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... d=80197014

what a twat.

but your tunes are pretty good. ;)

1st tune - fuck the comments on the voice, fits the style, as much as I HATE to say it your voice is almost Tom Waits like in some of his more intimate tunes. not bad guitar playing either.

2nd tune - kinda rough but it's got good flow, could be a nice wall of sound thing there if you can produce.

3rd tune - reminds me of some of the grunge I like, Sonic Youth and shit.

4th tune - lol sooo sounds like Adore when Corgan went electric, that fat floppy kick drum with spooshy snare. not your best tune but fuck it, it's not all that bad.



who are your influences? I think we like the some of the same shit.

nevermind, you're an asshole!!! meh, so am I. fuck off!! :lol:
sorry for being an asshole guys..
i would like to make it up?
its hard for me to share my true self.
this song is how i really feel about everyone on here :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzaph2OBuqM

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:29 am
by kramerica
nathannn wrote:
Tone Deft wrote::roll:
sorry for being an asshole guys..
i would like to make it up?
its hard for me to share my true self.
this song is how i really feel about everyone on here :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzaph2OBuqM
:lol:

ALL IS FORGIVEN!

(let's spoon)

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:53 am
by vinkalmann
nathannn wrote: sorry for being an asshole guys..
i would like to make it up?
its hard for me to share my true self.
this song is how i really feel about everyone on here :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzaph2OBuqM
Dude, there's vomit on my keyboard now. That's never coming out...

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:21 pm
by thelike5
Olga wrote:Bush is an idiot and the war in Iraq is insane but


Lets get real here. You put Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong Ill or Hugo chavez in charge of a military the size of the usa and we'd all be living like Mad Max right now. These nuts make bush look like the virgin mary.

end of story

wake up.
+1