so what is the consensus on Analog?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
julienb
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Post by julienb » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:20 am

operator is very enough.
as many of you I guess, I used operator with the last routing feature since a long time...

Winston
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Post by Winston » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:47 pm

fiz wrote:.. But Analog -- please Abes, do us a favor and have AAS include a full-size splash page option that rivals their own Ultra Analog VA-1.
Yeah, and while they're at it, they should let AAS throw the chorus from Ultra Analog back on Analog. That's the only thing that made the sound stand out in the first place.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:01 pm

forge wrote:
fiz wrote: It's silly to keep things squished and tidy if you can't use them. And if you do keep Analog the way it is, it will be dead weight for folks wanting to actually use the synth for making sounds.
yeah this is a general comment that I hope Ableton sees that is becoming more of an issue with each release

it seems Ableton are trying really hard to keep with their original all-in-one interface philosophy but i think it started to not work from Live 4 onwards and is getting progressively worse
I completely agree, somehow the interface ate itself.
simple interfaces controlling simple features has not scaled up well when applied to newer stuff. In fact , trying to stick to the old paradigm has made something as simple as a 3 osc synth incredibly hard to program.
They keep the interface simple, but left us to manage the complexity ourselves. "er, is this Lfo tab related to the 3rd page with the shift key down so I can change the pitch of that oscillator???"

Here's a jet fighter, you can control it with these 10 controls, but to keep the interface all neat we put the controls under the seat. Tidy huh!
Last edited by Angstrom on Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Winston
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Post by Winston » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:03 pm

Angstrom wrote: Here's a jet fighter, you can control it with these 10 controls, but to keep the interface all neat we put the controls under the seat. Tidy huh!
Best analogy I've ever heard.

forge
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Post by forge » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:07 pm

Winston wrote:
Angstrom wrote: Here's a jet fighter, you can control it with these 10 controls, but to keep the interface all neat we put the controls under the seat. Tidy huh!
Best analogy I've ever heard.
+1

dr.wackler
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Post by dr.wackler » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:38 pm

Winston wrote:Yeah, and while they're at it, they should let AAS throw the chorus from Ultra Analog back on Analog. That's the only thing that made the sound stand out in the first place.
+ 1
The chorus makes a big difference. :!: The one in AAS Ultra Analog is lightyears ahead of Live's chorus. Ableton should have licensed it as well.

I also noticed, that AAS Ultra Analog sounds more lively (no pun intended) with the same patches than Live's Analog. I'm talking about the plain synth here, with all effects disabled.
AAS Ultra Analog has more bottom end to it, and the beats in the oscillators seem more complex.
Astounding, since they are supposed to be based on the exact same engine. But Live's Analog definitely sounds a little bit more sterile that AAS Ultra Analog.


forge
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Post by forge » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:49 pm

dr.wackler wrote: But Live's Analog definitely sounds a little bit more sterile that AAS Ultra Analog.
I am not trying to discredit this opionion in any way because I have not tested the difference myself, but I have been wondering in recent times if there is some kind of phenomenon where the interface of something has an aesthetic - or synaesthetic effect where it makes something feel like it sounds better - not jsut talking about this example but I've wondered this elsewhere - it's such an inexact science to try and figure out why things sound different and sometime I feel like it could be as simple as the interface

I have no question that the Ableton version is nowhere near as good as the AAS one interface wise, so how does that make you feel when making music - could it make you think it sounds better too?

dr.wackler
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Post by dr.wackler » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:57 pm

forge wrote:I am not trying to discredit this opionion in any way because I have not tested the difference myself, but I have been wondering in recent times if there is some kind of phenomenon where the interface of something has an aesthetic - or synaesthetic effect where it makes something feel like it sounds better - not jsut talking about this example but I've wondered this elsewhere - it's such an inexact science to try and figure out why things sound different and sometime I feel like it could be as simple as the interface
I absolutely agree with you on the synaesthetic effect phenomenon. That's why I always do blind tests when I seem to encounter a difference betweeen settings or tools.
So done in the comparisson of AAS Ultra Analog and Live's Analog. Be assured there is a difference you'll easily notice.


forge
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Post by forge » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:06 pm

dr.wackler wrote:
forge wrote:I am not trying to discredit this opionion in any way because I have not tested the difference myself, but I have been wondering in recent times if there is some kind of phenomenon where the interface of something has an aesthetic - or synaesthetic effect where it makes something feel like it sounds better - not jsut talking about this example but I've wondered this elsewhere - it's such an inexact science to try and figure out why things sound different and sometime I feel like it could be as simple as the interface
I absolutely agree with you on the synaesthetic effect phenomenon. That's why I always do blind tests when I seem to encounter a difference betweeen settings or tools.
So done in the comparisson of AAS Ultra Analog and Live's Analog. Be assured there is a difference you'll easily notice.
forge wrote:I have no question that the Ableton version is nowhere near as good as the AAS one interface wise, so how does that make you feel when making music - could it make you think it sounds better too?
Yes, I think so.
good to know

I am sure Ableton are paying attention to this thread - they usually seem to take on board criticism very well and there has been a fairly universal response here - and on top of that it's probably quite likely they were already thinking this themselves

trouble is, unless they finally abandon the all in one interface ethos they have so rigidly adhered to so far, I cant see how they could solve this

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:10 pm

RE: sound quality
that seems very odd, as I can't imagine where any change in raw sound might come from. As far as I know it is the exact same code as that from the AAS version, and only the interface is different.
I'm not discounting it (or even testing it !), but it would be very odd for this to happen.

RE: interfaces.

I think the Sampler interface is quite intuitive, just about everything is where you would expect it and only the first page seems a little cramped. Perhaps Ableton ought to re-arrange Analog to follow the Sampler model, that would be the simplest solution.

dr.wackler
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Post by dr.wackler » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:20 pm

forge wrote:
dr.wackler wrote:
forge wrote:I have no question that the Ableton version is nowhere near as good as the AAS one interface wise, so how does that make you feel when making music - could it make you think it sounds better too?
Yes, I think so.
good to know
That last part of my post was a mistake (and I edited my post meanwhile), since I misread that quoted part.
The answer here would be: No, there is a real difference in sound.


forge
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Post by forge » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:24 pm

dr.wackler wrote:
forge wrote:
dr.wackler wrote: Yes, I think so.
good to know
That last part of my post was a mistake (and I edited my post meanwhile), since I misread that quoted part.
The answer here would be: No, there is a real difference in sound.
yes I took it that way

though as Angstrom has pointed out this may be tenuous
are you sure no FX are present?

TBH I'm not sure I have even the inclination to try this as I will just make do with the Ableton one and hope they fix the interface, but I find it very interesting

dr.wackler
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Post by dr.wackler » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:25 pm

Angstrom wrote:RE: sound quality
that seems very odd, as I can't imagine where any change in raw sound might come from. As far as I know it is the exact same code as that from the AAS version, and only the interface is different.
I'm not discounting it (or even testing it !), but it would be very odd for this to happen.
Like I said, it is astounding, since they are suppposed to be based on the same engine. Odd, but real.


dr.wackler
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Post by dr.wackler » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:29 pm

forge wrote:are you sure no FX are present?
Absolutely sure. I first thought it might be a not 1:1 translation of the parameter settings, so I did the test with the plain oscillators - and even there you can easily hear the difference.


forge
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Post by forge » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:30 pm

dr.wackler wrote:
forge wrote:are you sure no FX are present?
Absolutely sure. I first thought it might be a not 1:1 translation of the parameter settings, so I did the test with the plain oscillators - and even there you can easily hear the difference.
hmmm..well you are making me want to d/l the demo again

maybe tomorrow I'm going to bed! :D

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