All Art and Music Is Self-Indulgent Vanity

[b0unce]

*SplooooooOoooOOOOOOOOOOOooo0oO0oO0oOO00Ooge*

Mmmmmmmmmmm delicious soggy biscuit, more sauce!

[popslut]

Stoppit! Stoppit all of you! I want to join in but I have nothing interesting to say on the subject and you lot all chatting away happily makes me feel left out and insecure.

To just interject with the opinion that it shouldn't be discussed, and attempt to derail it makes no sense. If you don't want to be a part of the discussion then you don't have to. [...] to respond by simply attempting to shut a thread down [...] makes no sense. If it is a waste of your time, then don't waste your time, by either reading or responding.

[b0unce]

lolz....get down off that pony pops old bean.
I'll take this lecture off someone who doesn't do the same thing himself

[popslut]

Oh b0unce you great soft skinful of shite - don't take on so.

Swallow your pride and join in.

G'wan g'wan g'wan.

[DrXparaMental]

How should I respond to this mentality? It does raise a good point, but seems really negative...

negative for what ?

Negative as in depressing. Like, creating art brings joy to a lot of people. For someone like this to be told something to the effect of 'creating art is a waste of time', is discouraging.

Someone recently said something similar to me, so I wanted to get others' opinions on the matter.

How can you be serious? This is the only type of thinking or reaction that drives me. Do you expect someone or your general environment to actually encourage you to make/perform art? If they do encourage you, you have just witnessed the beginning of the end. Time to cash in.

[dcease]

I say you should go as low as you can to help someone up. I imagine that you have a wealth of knowledge and wisdom that could be shared with someone at the right time and place. They would benefit from your input. You would most likely end up with a friend for life. Cheers dude.

best words that have come out of some of youse guyses shit encrusted fingers in some time. you think you are better than someone, you are "above" it? fuck off, and have a wonderful, cool life. i wish you the best... it must be great to never feel depression, and i am sure i am skum because i do, as well as others. it's not real? neither is YOUR soul, robot. or lack thereof, actually.

[knotkranky]

@ gjm. I'm not going to level "the acceptence field" for those not cognizant enough to understand it. The sensitives are not the common denominator.
So how low do we go? None i say, cuz it can't be quantified. It's up to the reader not the writer to accept or not.

The dude said "all" music is thus....

I need to repeat my first response and his follow-up post:

first, you must be referring to your own mentality of course.

And you "respond" by learning what the hell is Duke Ellington's mentality?

It's not a point and it "is" negative.

Sorry mate, I don't get it. Perhaps I am one of those who are not cognizant enough to understand it. I thought the actual point of the OP was to discuss the accusation that all music and art was self indulgent vanity. To just interject with the opinion that it shouldn't be discussed, and attempt to derail it makes no sense. If you don't want to be a part of the discussion then you don't have to. There are others who want to, and maybe have opinions that lead to constructive solutions for not only the OP but for others who read the post but don't know how to repond or be involved in the disscusion.

I know that this is a forum and by virtue of this fact everyone is invited to respond. All I am suggesting is that to respond by simply attempting to shut a thread down because you happen to think something different makes no sense. If it is a waste of your time, then don't waste your time, by either reading or responding. If this one is figured out for you and is a no brainer, either help others sort their shit out or use your artistic talents and make art for us all to observe and admire. As I said, there are some people who have gotten over themselves, are more 'adjusted' than they used to be and are doing fine. But there are others who are just beginning their journies and are trying to honestly wade through the issues and find hooks to hang things on in their heads.

I agree with you that the topic is in some respects childish, hence your comment regarding the 2nd grade. I think you would find that we could possibly share a similar view point. But consider your view point. How did you get there? By a process of experiencing your unique lifescape and using your head to make all the adjustments you made to get to the point where you are at. Why would you try and stop someone else from doing the same?

The 'sensitives' are found right through the spectrum of beginner to accomplished artists. Usually, it is those who make a living from their art that go through the process of desensitising in order to continue to do what it is they do. They begin to give up 'black and white' positions and accept various forms of 'grey' to view their place in the world. They often end up viewing their 'worth' in dollars. This where you find many artists throwing the towel in because making art is not worth it. Self indulgence and vanity do not come into the picture. Likewise, the flipside of the coin is that relationships are considered to be worth more than making art, and so a sacrifice is made to choose one over the other. Everyone has a different set of drivers and rewards.

I say you should go as low as you can to help someone up. I imagine that you have a wealth of knowledge and wisdom that could be shared with someone at the right time and place. They would benefit from your input. You would most likely end up with a friend for life. Cheers dude.

Dude, all yer saying is; back off if your not going to be encouraging to noobs. There's a lot wrong with that.

Regardless, I'm here cuz i wanna be, yes I want to derail the premise but not the discussion, and I'm being very helpful to somebody. I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed and if anyone wants to ignore me then thats fine too. That's really the golden rule here anyway. You have digressed this discussion more than I.

If he had said "some" music and/or didn't use "vanity" I woulda passed right by.

Maybe the op is purposefully provocative so.... I've been provoked. I take issue with the question and not what everybody wants to do with it. The obvious answer is "no" Not all music is self indulgent vanity.

Anyway, I've posted my retorts, dn83 did not respond. I've made my point. If dn83 would like me to stop posting in his thread, he only has to ask. Really. Cheers

[gjm]

knotkranky wrote:

Dude, all yer saying is; back off if your not going to be encouraging to noobs. There's a lot wrong with that.

Yes you are right, and wrong. I am saying that it is a better show of strength to flex your muscles appropriatly. Like I said, the 'sensitives' are everywhere, noob or not.

Regardless, I'm here cuz i wanna be, yes I want to derail the premise but not the discussion, and I'm being very helpful to somebody. I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed and if anyone wants to ignore me then thats fine too. That's really the golden rule here anyway. You have digressed this discussion more than I.

Its good that you are here. I like reading your posts and your helpful responses to peoples music related problems. But if you check my posts, I have not derailed anything, infact I have encouraged disscussion about the very (to some people) sensitive topic of how to view the art you make, wether for a living or as a hobby, or out of 'other world' compulsion. We all have different experiences and the topic is being discussed. I would just like to hear more from you about your journey and how you worked it out. I might learn something.

Maybe the op is purposefully provocative so.... I've been provoked. I take issue with the question and not what everybody wants to do with it. The obvious answer is "no" Not all music is self indulgent vanity.

Maybe you are right about the OP and their intention to provoke. But as I say, some of us are in the 2nd grade and need a helping hand to move on up. If the answer was obvious to you, then why not state the obvious in a way that offers a helping hand, like you so often do with other posts.

Now I will be the first to admit that I have posted some stuff that did more for my post count than anyones good. There are times and places for these sorts of things. I was just wanting to highlight the fact that for every one person who asks a dumb question (in our opinion) there is probably 10 more who have wanted to ask the question but either did not know how, or did not have the balls.

So, I agree with you, the obvious answer is not all music and art is self indulgent vanity. I would further say that some artists are self indulgent and vain. Art is the result of the artists intentions. Lets help the artist. Cheers KK.

[dcease]

gjm for world president. fuck off.

You have digressed this discussion more than I.

If you are the vehicle, then let the muse speak. It's not your place to judge.

this kid is/was obviously feeling something. he maybe doesn't know how to "speak" what he is feeling...

Negative as in depressing. Like, creating art brings joy to a lot of people. For someone like this to be told something to the effect of 'creating art is a waste of time', is discouraging.

Someone recently said something similar to me, so I wanted to get others' opinions on the matter.

yeah, i see it kranky

[DrXparaMental]

Lets help the artist. Cheers KK.

How? Hasn't history proven over and over that the greatest art ever created was done so to please the artist rather than the audience? I can fully appreciate your good will. It's just that i can't think of a single case where because of "help" the artist did anything more valuable than the contribution that they themselves were solely responsible for. I have to believe that struggle and torture are a very common mortar within the foundation of any truly worthwhile artist.

[dcease]

Lets help the artist. Cheers KK.

How? Hasn't history proven over and over that the greatest art ever created was done so to please the artist rather than the audience? I can fully appreciate your good will. It's just that i can't think of a single case where because of "help" the artist did anything more valuable than the contribution that they themselves were solely responsible for. I have to believe that struggle and torture are a very common mortar within the foundation of any truly worthwhile artist.

has your dumbass not figured it out? fuck off. blah blah blah, your breath fucking stinks. how does your father's shit taste? your mother's pussy? pretty sweet i might say. you don't like to help people? for fucks sake, he wasn't asking for money, he needed a little boost.

so if i need a boost, it's all right, but if someone else does, fuck him?

fuck off.

[DrXparaMental]

Lets help the artist. Cheers KK.

How? Hasn't history proven over and over that the greatest art ever created was done so to please the artist rather than the audience? I can fully appreciate your good will. It's just that i can't think of a single case where because of "help" the artist did anything more valuable than the contribution that they themselves were solely responsible for. I have to believe that struggle and torture are a very common mortar within the foundation of any truly worthwhile artist.

has your dumbass not figured it out? fuck off. blah blah blah, your breath fucking stinks. how does your father's shit taste? your mother's pussy? pretty sweet i might say. you don't like to help people? for fucks sake, he wasn't asking for money, he needed a little boost.

so if i need a boost, it's all right, but if someone else does, fuck him?

fuck off.

I'll only respond once to you dflea. You're really not worth that single response because all you REALLY want is attention here. No more from me after this.

This is truly a glorious time to be alive. Step right up ladies and gentleman! We have for your most superficial pleasure more of that nickle a copy asshole. Step right up and be the first on your street to own a genuine Ableton town clown dooshbag doll. He may not look like much, but just pull his string and listen to that boy sing. So be the first on your block to own this genuine imitation crying crooner for just a nickle. He's sphincterriffic!

[Tone Deft]

So be the first on your block to own this genuine imitation crying crooner for just a nickle. He's sphincterriffic!

I could use a new white slave for my studio, the last one died, chocked on my foot when he coughed during a recording.

is this one house trained? does he know how to wind cables and change turntable cartridges? is he OSC compatible?

I need more details.

[thefool]

Oh thats funny. what a joke! maggot. 8000 posts and you can't even make a real joke?

[dcease]

I'll only respond once to you dflea. You're really not worth that single response because all you REALLY want is attention here. No more from me after this.

oh, and i thought you had something real to say! shame on me.

i've never said anything to the contrary. glad you can read.

how was that bait? figured a smart fella like yourself would know better. aren't you just the greatest since spam sandwiches with american cheese, toasted lightly, and a dallop of mayonaise.

fuck sprite. not that i expect one of you to get what that means.
<snickers> "dude, d.'s a moron... look at that retort, he's just talking about food, lulz!"

and i don't plan on telling. drinks on k., jokes on d. not many of you muther fuckers get me.
and i don't care, worry about your hair.
and your job, impress your boss,
not with your work, but with your talk
cause that is all you have,
i mean yourself. you are bad for my health,
i'm afraid i'll catch your sickness
witness, the most vain of all, the man who cannot see over the wall
piled high with visions of granduer
and in the sewer
those who were humble.
money is the root of all that is evil
so being broke is root of all that is peaceful.
you think of me not as an equal
let me know how it is, i don't plan on cacthing the sequal.