Live 7 vs. Logic 8 vs. pro tools 7.4 in the Resources Dept.

o0o · Post by **o0o** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:28 am

I've been reading some comments that Logic is much more robust compared to Live when it comes to cpu/resources. Is this a known fact or just speculation and if it is a fact is it the same case for pro tools, which of the three will allow you to run more instrument and fx plugins?

the plugins i'm planning on purchasing are

g force minimonsta
arturias analog factory
guitar rig
speakerphone
loungelizard
idrum
ozone

I have Live already maybe i should ask between Logic and pro tools which can give me the most instances of these plugins and quality of the sound.

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:01 am

i think you might be hearing from mr.gordon on this one, but good question i'd like to know myself.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:53 am

Logic will allow you to run more instruments.
My tests from a couple years ago showed Logic far exceeding Live or Digital Performer. With DP getting around 80% of what Logic could, and Live getting around 60-70%.

Basic Plug in count wise nothing beats Logic, other tests against Nuendo and Pro Tools show similar figures (70-80% compared to Logic).

What matters here though IMO is what kind of workflow do you want? what are you looking to do with a DAW? Personally even though certain thing in Loigic are far better than Live, I still write at least as much in Live as Logic. The Session View is a great song arrangement tool that Logic has no equivalent of. Plus all the real time live performance aspects of Live make it more like an instrument than a DAW in some ways.
If you like surgically editing your MIDI though, Logic is the one.

o0o · Post by **o0o** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:29 am

hmm i see, I like to layer sounds very much. i do alot of freezing my clips to audio in live and its good, but it takes longer and longer for a new plug in to open up, so I was thinking of another app to share the duties.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:46 am

o0o wrote:hmm i see, I like to layer sounds very much. i do alot of freezing my clips to audio in live and its good, but it takes longer and longer for a new plug in to open up, so I was thinking of another app to share the duties.

Logic is a good choice for that if you want to get a little more headroom, but in some ways it's better to just stick with a single program and really master it.
I have Logic, Reason, Digital Performer, Live, and a few plug ins that could act as stand alone sequencer, like Kore. I appreciate the diversity this gives me, but I could probably sell everything but Live and Kore, and be happy.

Logic is much better at MIDI, and the included FX are cool, I'm just pretty addicted to Session View, otherwise I would work in Logic. Though Logic will drive you nuts with certain limitations as far as using it to perform, which I used to do before Live.

o0o · Post by **o0o** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:52 am

i can't live without the session view either,

btw what does kore do for you outside of the organization of patches, don't lives racks and kore share the same features?

o0o · Post by **o0o** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:50 pm

what would I be missing if instead of Logic 8 I chose logic xpress, if I'm not going to use any Logic instruments, the only thing I'll be using logic for is my third party vst/vsti and audio editing?

o0o · Post by **o0o** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:27 am

nudge

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:41 pm

Sorry, I wanted to make sure I wasn't misleading you. Logic express, according to a big wig at Apple.

... there are only four features that separate Logic Pro from Logic Express. They are: surround sound, distributed audio, high-end control surface support and TDM support ... Despite the naming convention, this is Logic Pro, minus those four features ... the instruments in Logic Express are exactly the same as those found in Logic Pro — if you can do it with a Logic Pro instrument, you can do it with a Logic Express instrument.

There are a few other things

- Reduced size library (I think - not sure)
- Surround support
- Hardware and System protocols NOT supported:
• TDM support
• Distributed Audio Processing
• Support for high-end professional control surfaces (Euphonix and SmartAV consoles)
- Instrument Plug-Ins:
• Sculpture
• Vintage Series: EVP88, EVB3, EVD6
- Effect Plug-Ins:
• Space Designer
• Delay Designer
• Mastering Series: Linear Phase EQ, Match EQ, Multipressor, AdLimiter, Multimeter

Honestly the instruments are really good, but besides using Sculpture on a few songs, I could have been fine with Express. Logic Express pre Apple was seriously cut down from the pro version.

Anyway have fun, Logic is a VERY different beast than Live, and more than one Live-head has hated it, but for me it's been the opposite in some ways!

The MIDI stuff, and GUI conventions in Live are all mousy.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:15 pm

Also, depending on your background etc, some DAWS just suit your workflow and needs better and the layout and GUI is important.

Having grown up on Cubase since VST 3.5, I have never found it easy to adjust to other GUIs, Logic was a particularly cumbersome and difficult adjustment. There used to be jokes about how ILLOGICAL Logic was.

The interface in version 8 is improved, but I used to hate working in Logic Pro 6 and 7, which my job occasionally called for, although I loved some of the synths and fx. The PDC issue in Logic is also one that causes consternation and that is within Logic owners not just occasional users. Then again, if I had the time to really go in depth with Logic and hadn't seen another DAW GUI first, I probably would feel differently.

Live is more CPU intensive, but if you have a powerful computer with lots of RAM and use freezing, you can get high track counts and plugin counts. USing racks is a great way to layer sounds too in Live. Cubase is good resource wise and it's offline processing mode with history so you can undo or change things later is a major asset. Oddly enough though, freeze sucks, Live has a great implementation of freeze that works well.

The least CPU intensive program I've used is Reason, but the fact that you cannot run audio tracks in with the MIDI tracks nor use 3rd party plugins is a major factor there.

o0o · Post by **o0o** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:48 pm

thank you ,

i'm satisfied with my third party softsynths and really trying to only focus on the ones that i have thats why whatever comes with logic isn't an issue for me. the main thing is logics audio editing and high track count, if logic express has good freezing then i might end up doing composition in logic and then freezing everything and exporting to Live and then recomposing and mastering.
I know it seems like most people compose more in live and then master in logic but i really need those high plugin track counts, I need tons of minimonsta and analog factory tracks, I'm trying to do wall of sound sample based collage music without the samples basicly. but I love writing composing inlive, so I really only need another app for the high plugin instance count.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:11 am

Well, I used to think that way, where I would do all my composing in Live and then just render out or rewire to Cubase SX3, but nowadays, I rarely have to do that, even though Live is more CPU intensive.

It really depends what you need. If you can afford to buy Logic, you can take the best parts out of Live and throw them together with the best parts of Logic (Space Designer, Pitch fix, Ultrabeat etc). But I agree that mastering one system is better than being able to work to a basic level on 2 different softwares.

Remember, if you are running low on CPU, you can always render some tracks to audio and just reimport those in, use freeze tracks or whatever and that saves a lot of CPU overhead. Also using MONO tracks saves a lot of CPU, and stuff like lead vocals, bass, kick drum, etc are better in mono anyway.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:21 am

o0o wrote:i can't live without the session view either,

btw what does kore do for you outside of the organization of patches, don't lives racks and kore share the same features?

Not really they share some basic features like stacking synths and splitting synths FX on keyboard layers etc. but the big advantage of Kore, and one that gets overlooked in these forums a lot, is that Kore uses Track Automation to write MIDI parameter changes with, so you get 500 steps VS 128= much smoother automation when turning knobs on the hardware, and also as an added bonus, since Kore addresses your soft synths instead of Live, you get all parameters to choose from, not just the first 128 like Live gives you.

The mapping features in Kore are better than Novations, ther are plusses and minuses to both, with the biggest minus to Kore being that a plug in can take up to a minute or more sometimes to load, and anything oyu want mapped has to be loaded into Kore to map, whereas to a degree Novation doesn't even care if the plug in is Automapped. The knobs on Kore are about 100X better than Novations though.
Also, as long as you bundle your samples in with a Kore preset .ksd, and have the same instruments on another computer, you can port whole stacked split layered sounds with Kore, instead of each individual preset for each FX and Instruments.

So even with it's limitations, Kore adds OSC smoothness to automation, and circumvents the 128 parameter limit. I can live with the issues it might have because of this!

john gordon · Post by **john gordon** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:43 am

logic runs a little better,but ableton is running ok since ive started turning airport off while running live.

mauve · Post by **mauve** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:32 am

I had to switch to Logic because Live is harder on CPU.
But I miss Live's work flow and the Look

Also what I like about Logic is that I can assign anything to Key shortcut.
I wish Live would improve on that.