Matching Master Tempo to Vst plugin? Techy type help needed!

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mrslippy
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Matching Master Tempo to Vst plugin? Techy type help needed!

Post by mrslippy » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:09 pm

Hey everyone!
I have a techy geeky nerdy type question way above my skillset.
So, Im using Ableton as a cross between a DJ setup, and a Live looping interface, using the Guru multitracking tutorial for Trigger finger (dont have the direct link now) and an extra midi channel that has Deckadance on it, as a Vst plugin, which is controlled by an X-session Pro controller. Anyway, after struggling for about a week, I have it all setup, it basically means I can trigger lots of live samples with Trigger Finger while utilizing the power of Deckadance to Dj with inside Ableton. I have 400 mp3s, and I am reluctant to warp them all as Deckadance handles the Djing part nicely, and plays nice with my X-Session Pro.
My question is, I would like to layer live midi loops on top of whatever is playing through Deckadance, however, the tempo withing the Vst plugin, and the Master Tempo controls in Ableton are always different, and if I try and manually line them up, my loops always fall out of sync. Is there any way to control the master tempo with a Vst plugin, in other words, if I speed up or slow down the tempo within Deckadance, this will automatically adjust the master tempo to match the plugin, that way, if i trigger a live loop or same clip, it will be in exact time and sync with whatever im playing at the time?
Thanx for reading this, and thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide:)

beats me
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Post by beats me » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:18 pm

Interesting but I don't think that is possible. I think all plugins have to be slave to Live's master tempo. Somebody might correct me though.

Maybe some kind of rewire thingy.

laird
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Post by laird » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:22 pm

Can you run Deckadence in standalone mode, instead of inside Live, and then slave Live to it?? Not sure if you are Mac or PC, there are apps that can help you route MIDI data internally

mrslippy
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Post by mrslippy » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:29 pm

laird wrote:Can you run Deckadence in standalone mode, instead of inside Live, and then slave Live to it?? Not sure if you are Mac or PC, there are apps that can help you route MIDI data internally
It can be run in standalone yes, but heres the wierd thing, in my machine (im on a PC, by the way, Windows XP laptop) when I run it that way, I cant use my X-session Pro, even tho it is supported by Deckadance...(thats a tech question for their forums...), so I would prefer to run it through Ableton...isnt there any kind of internal midi clock sync, or something, that you can route the tempo sync from a plugin to the master? Just a suggestion, as I dont really know anything...hypothetically, If I ran Deckadance in standalone mode, could I use it to control Ableton's te mpo? Anyone care to guide me through that process? Or anyone have any other suggestions about the origional problem?
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions so far, and keep them coming please:)

laird
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Post by laird » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:09 pm

sounds to me like you gotta fix the problem with Deckadence and it not recognizing your controller.

I'd be suprised if Live can be slave to itself, you might disrupt the space-time contiunuum.

mrslippy
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Post by mrslippy » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:23 pm

yeah, the universe will fold in on itself if i solve this, lol
Yes, I would have to talk to the deckadance people, IF I wanted to use it as standalone, but I dont particularly wanna do that, and have Ableton slave linked to a separate piece of software, as that would increase the resources on my humble laptop, having separate softwares running and remotely synced, id rather have it all runiing within the same piece of software, thats why I asked my origional question if the master tempo can be synced to a vst tempo....anyone with a definitive answer, or some suggestions on workarounds will be rewarded with milk and cookies, albeit the virtual kind :)

Khazul
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Post by Khazul » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:25 pm

I dont beleive there is any way that a VST can control the hosts tempo - so basically no.

Its a real shame with the recent advent of good DJing software as VST plugins.

Probably not an area that steinberg (VST technology owners) gives a damn about :(
Nothing to see here - move along!

mrslippy
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Post by mrslippy » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:38 pm

darn...i hope thats not the case, but its looking like it, yeah...it would be nice to have some kind of two-way connection, or two-way control, especially as Ableton plays well with so many potential plug-ins that you'd think there would be better integration....I love Ableton as far as music production, but it just isnt custom built as DJ software, and warping tracks seems like such a long-winded way of doing things, plus takes the whole skill out of beatmatching in the first place, lol, seems to be basically sliding a crossfader at an appropriate time...Deckadance is far from idal, but I agree, with the rise of DJ soft being able to be used as Vst, then there should be closer integration.

mrslippy
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Post by mrslippy » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:48 pm

I just had an idea and wanted to float it past people in the same topic....couldnt you have the master tempo control the tempo of Deckadance as vst tho? its like my origional question, but in reverse...if Deckadance cant influence the tempo of Ableton, can the master tempo of Ableton control Deckadance? If so, then whenever i wanted to play live, I could sync it that way, to have the song in Deckadance exactly match the master tempo, then that may work, no?
Anyway, the quest continues, lol

Khazul
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Post by Khazul » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:50 pm

Ive posted the question on the VST plugin dev list - (Im not at my VST dev machine at the moment) to see if anyone there knows if its even possible with the VST architecture, never mind possible within Live.

If not - then actuall its beccoming a must have feature for some of us. Ive never really though about it as I dont use software for regular DJing yet - considered it and rejected it for now for various reasons.

The only thought that occures to me, is deckadance able to output a midi clock direct to a midi port?

If so, then maybe riggging up a virtual mid port (like MIDI Yoke) might do the job - ie slave live to a virtual midi in port that is setup to receive from the virtual out port that the DJ software sends a clock to.

i have experimented with this kind of thing using NI tracktor in the past - kind of worked.
Nothing to see here - move along!

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