For those having reaktor... and any kind of time coded vinyl

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
R.J.Dubya
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Post by R.J.Dubya » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:39 pm

Just curious Nathan,

I see there is a sequence of notes which somehow effect the samples being triggered. Is you reaktor ensemble a basic sampler where you can load samples across the keyrange? If so, that seems to be an advantage over ms.pinky right there, no? You say pinky can do everything ammobox lite can do, but it can't do that.
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Nathan Ramella
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Post by Nathan Ramella » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:33 pm

kpa wrote:i am mega impressed by this, can it scratch real time audio, or do you have to pop the audio into a sampler to give it a midi note?

also, this might not be to forum etiquette, so ignore if its not allowed, but i am unable to register my copy of reaktor, so i cant access the user library, but would like a copy of this plug-in. would anyone be able to email me a copy of the ammobox plug in, or can i get it from nathan directly?
It could scratch a buffer, currently doesn't. I'm not really motivated to add this feature because it violates my 'I don't want to hear it one time statically before I can modify it' rule of sampling, but if enough people want it someone will implement it or I'll setup a bounty for getting it done and people can pay for the feature.

If you're having trouble getting to the NI site, you can dowload ammobox from my webpage: http://www.remix.net/ammobox_lite_v1.0.zip

-n
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:45 pm

R.J.Dubya wrote:Just curious Nathan,

I see there is a sequence of notes which somehow effect the samples being triggered. Is you reaktor ensemble a basic sampler where you can load samples across the keyrange? If so, that seems to be an advantage over ms.pinky right there, no? You say pinky can do everything ammobox lite can do, but it can't do that.
I believe his scratch algorithm is 'hang the DJ' and ammobox was some kind of sampler be made before this project. the notes/samples feature is different than Pinky but I think you can get the same effect with a rack of Pinkies.

IMO the cool thing is that another platform has scratching abilities and like Pinky, it's tweakable, so the possibilities are endless.

Reaktor and max both do OSC, it's crossed my mind to link Ammobox to Pinky but I don't have Reaktor and who'd want to fire up Live, Reaktor and max to work on a project? keep it simple.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

Nathan Ramella
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Post by Nathan Ramella » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:51 pm

R.J.Dubya wrote:Just curious Nathan,

I see there is a sequence of notes which somehow effect the samples being triggered. Is you reaktor ensemble a basic sampler where you can load samples across the keyrange? If so, that seems to be an advantage over ms.pinky right there, no? You say pinky can do everything ammobox lite can do, but it can't do that.
Yeah, you can load samples across a key range (even have overlap and velocity settings) and then trigger samples via MIDI..

Basically Ms. Pinky has better time code reading techniques, and honestly I'm not 100% of what Max's feature set is these days so I can't authoratively say what Ms. Pinky can or cannot do.

However, I've never seen anything using Ms. Pinky that works like ammobox, and contrary to the handful of statements similar to 'I was doing something LIKE ammobox with Ms. Pinky but never finished' I've yet to see anything materialize that lives up to the claim. It's easy to talk about projects you've not finished and all the great features they would have had if you had finished them. I could do that all day long. You should hear about my jump-to-conclusions mat...

I suspect someone will come out with something similar with Ms. Pinky that uses 'cue points' in a single mp3 file to simulate ammobox, but that would miss the entire point.. ammobox can trigger multiple samples at once, you can also 'grip and slip' samples so that they overlap... it's a lot more than simply just changing position in a static file.
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

john gordon
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Post by john gordon » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:58 pm

can you use a cd player instead of a turntable?obviously a cd player that allows you to scratch....

Nathan Ramella
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Post by Nathan Ramella » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:00 pm

john gordon wrote:can you use a cd player instead of a turntable?obviously a cd player that allows you to scratch....
I don't see any reason why not.

One of the easter eggs of ammobox is that it includes a very simple timecode generator.. If you hooked that to the output so that you could record the ammobox timecode, you could then burn that to a CD and use it in CD decks. (I think, haven't tried it though)..
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:01 pm

john gordon wrote:can you use a cd player instead of a turntable?obviously a cd player that allows you to scratch....
yep.

the input to these things is a buzzing sound, that buzzing sound is actually a couple of signals interwoven that the software reads to find out what the CD player or turntable are doing.

you could make an mp3 file of the timecode and play that.

check the section just above "see also..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Scratch
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:03 pm

Nathan Ramella wrote:
john gordon wrote:can you use a cd player instead of a turntable?obviously a cd player that allows you to scratch....
I don't see any reason why not.

One of the easter eggs of ammobox is that it includes a very simple timecode generator.. If you hooked that to the output so that you could record the ammobox timecode, you could then burn that to a CD and use it in CD decks. (I think, haven't tried it though)..
Nathan, thanks for making this and sharing it - looks the business, although Reaktor does suck ass for anything graphical, huh? :-|

Your comment here started something going in my head... could someone record the timecode as a loooong audio file? I'd be willing to pay to control something like Serato from a fileplayer in MaxMSP :twisted:
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Nathan Ramella
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Post by Nathan Ramella » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:06 pm

Machinate wrote:Reaktor does suck ass for anything graphical, huh? :-|
Heh. Max's UI sucks a lot worse than Reaktor, thats for sure. But, how great does a musical instrument need to look? :D
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:06 pm

Machinate wrote:
Nathan Ramella wrote:
john gordon wrote:can you use a cd player instead of a turntable?obviously a cd player that allows you to scratch....
I don't see any reason why not.

One of the easter eggs of ammobox is that it includes a very simple timecode generator.. If you hooked that to the output so that you could record the ammobox timecode, you could then burn that to a CD and use it in CD decks. (I think, haven't tried it though)..
Nathan, thanks for making this and sharing it - looks the business, although Reaktor does suck ass for anything graphical, huh? :-|

Your comment here started something going in my head... could someone record the timecode as a loooong audio file? I'd be willing to pay to control something like Serato from a fileplayer in MaxMSP :twisted:
actually, you should be able to make the timecode WITH max/msp. hmmm.... :twisted:
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:10 pm

Nathan Ramella wrote:
Machinate wrote:Reaktor does suck ass for anything graphical, huh? :-|
Heh. Max's UI sucks a lot worse than Reaktor, thats for sure.
Sounds like someone hasn't tried Max5 yet... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

hope you didn't take it the wrong way, by the way... I used to dev. in Reaktor and I've spent ages upon ages building in it.
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Nathan Ramella
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Post by Nathan Ramella » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:13 pm

Here's the forumula for making your own timecode off the top of my head, may be wrong but I think it's right. You can check the ammobox ensemble in the 'channels' macro.

1. 2 sinewave oscillators one on left channel, one on right channel,

2. On the right channel set it's phase +90 degrees (In Reaktor this is accomplished by setting the phase to (.5 or),

3. Set both oscillators to a frequency of your choice, Traktor Scratch likes 2khz (2000 cycles per second), it may be possible to use higher rates which would increase pickup time

4. Set amplitude above .001 (just put it to .9 or something)

Done.

That will give you all the 'timecode' you need. Record that and play it back, viola, home brew time code. Since ammobox doesn't care about absolute positioning the idea of encoding absolute position into binary data in the sinewaves isn't necessary.
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

Nathan Ramella
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Post by Nathan Ramella » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:14 pm

Machinate wrote:
Nathan Ramella wrote:
Machinate wrote:Reaktor does suck ass for anything graphical, huh? :-|
Heh. Max's UI sucks a lot worse than Reaktor, thats for sure.
Sounds like someone hasn't tried Max5 yet... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

hope you didn't take it the wrong way, by the way... I used to dev. in Reaktor and I've spent ages upon ages building in it.
Fair play to you, I haven't used Max 5. Reaktor already has my $500, unless Max can cook bacon and eggs for me in the morning I'm going to stick with what I know. :D Besides, Reaktor 6 may eventually come out some day!
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:16 pm

Nathan Ramella wrote:Fair play to you, I haven't used Max 5. Reaktor already has my $500, unless Max can cook bacon and eggs for me in the morning I'm going to stick with what I know. :D Besides, Reaktor 6 may eventually come out some day!
fo sho, and who knows, Reaktor 6 may even have OSC support :-P
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Nathan Ramella
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Post by Nathan Ramella » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:18 pm

Machinate wrote:
Nathan Ramella wrote:Fair play to you, I haven't used Max 5. Reaktor already has my $500, unless Max can cook bacon and eggs for me in the morning I'm going to stick with what I know. :D Besides, Reaktor 6 may eventually come out some day!
fo sho, and who knows, Reaktor 6 may even have OSC support :-P
Reaktor 5 has OSC support.

http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... tchid=6843

It just sucks. :D Didn't stop me from doing 0day stuff tho..

Consider for a second the combination of ammobox + the ability to asynchronously 'upload' audio to it via the network..
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

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