To copyright or not?

nuxnamon · Post by **nuxnamon** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:42 am

Hi all,

I am wondering if it is smart to put music out on sites like myspace, virb, bebo, etc.. before having the songs copyrighted? The application says it takes approx 6 mos but i just wanted to put some tracks out there and see what people say... also, if i submit a song and do a revision later, is that another application and have to pay the fee again?

thanks for help!!

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:47 am

You own the copyright to your works from day one. Registration or not.

What some people do is mail a copy of the music (sheet/cd) to themselves to get the postal services date stamp. To proove that the work is really yours and when it was produced.

I don't know myspace, but some of those community sites (Facebook etc) actually retreive the ownership as soon as you post your material on there. It's a all in the small print.

.m

Warminstrel · Post by **Warminstrel** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:05 am

I believe in general copyright terms, that for a work to be deemed ‘unique’ there need to be at least 8 points of difference. This is normally applied to physical art, like a painting or sculpture for instance.

Not sure if this applies to music (see George Harrison’s 'Oh My Lord', a tune which Mr. H was succesfully fined for copying the Ronnettes 'He's So Fine' melody from a few years previous) though if it does, any slight changes you make to your own music would no affect your copyright (Lo-Fi's advice on posting your work to you has been standard ever since i can remember)

On another note however; I did read in 'Computer Music Magazine' that for certain samples or sounds created by vst synths etc.. we on some occasions don’t technically own the sounds we use, we merely have permission to use them. Will dig out the mag later and see what the full score is....

lunabass · Post by **lunabass** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:08 am

who are you paying a copyright fee to???

Lo-Key Fu · Post by **Lo-Key Fu** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:16 am

I am not a lawyer - nor can I provide you with legal advice - but the short answer from my perspective is this:

1. Copyright can be a complex area of law with specifics that vary considerably from region to region.

2. If you need serious answers for important legal questions go to a local professional; take all other opinions - including mine (Arrgh! Paradox!) - with a pinch of salt.

3. If people really want to illegally copy or distribute your music they will find a way eventually. Don't let it bug you too much, just play it smart and only put music that you are prepared to have shared online.

4. There can be a lot of advantages from playing your cards cleverly and reaching those new online audiences. Read the relevant agreements carefully and understand what you are signing.

And finally:

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:You own the copyright to your works from day one. Registration or not.

Speaking from the Australian perspective, I would agree with this statement completely. However, it is worth bearing in mind two key points on this matter:
1. This is not necessarily the case in other countries/regions.
2. If a dispute ever went to court, you would still need to prove your ownership.

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:I don't know myspace, but some of those community sites (Facebook etc) actually retreive the ownership as soon as you post your material on there.

What do you mean by "retrieve" mate?

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:24 am

Lo-Key Fu wrote:
Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:I don't know myspace, but some of those community sites (Facebook etc) actually retreive the ownership as soon as you post your material on there.
What do you mean by "retrieve" mate?

For example when you read (and agree) the user terms on Facebook they state that everything you post on there is theirs to use. You give up your rights.

So it's not so much "retreive" as "take what you give them".

.m

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:26 am

facebook terms of use wrote:All content on the Site and available through the Service, including designs, text, graphics, pictures, video, information, applications, software, music, sound and other files, and their selection and arrangement (the "Site Content"), are the proprietary property of the Company...

Lo-Key Fu · Post by **Lo-Key Fu** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:51 am

Aha. I understand now mate - cheers for clearing that one up for me.

I do find it unusual that Facebook would have such an agreement regarding artists works however.

Again - I am no lawyer - but usually those kind of agreements "license" your works (music, art etc.) for as long as you have them posted up there. The license ends if you choose to remove them and this can be done at any time. Licensing is not about transferring ownership as such, but giving them the rights to use those works as a part of their site without them having to worry about any legal repercussions.

Out of curiousity, do you have a link as to exactly which page that info came from?

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:04 am

http://www.facebook.com/terms.php

There were a couple of newspaper articles in sweden about it last fall when the whole facebook thing exploded here. According to those articles, media that you have posted remains in the Facebook archive even after you remove them from your page. Strange.

I usually don't really read the fine print when registering to sites like that, but this caught my eye.

.m

Lo-Key Fu · Post by **Lo-Key Fu** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:19 am

Aha. Cheers for the link, but I notice you missed the last part of the sentence you copy/pasted:

All content on the Site and available through the Service, including designs, text, graphics, pictures, video, information, applications, software, music, sound and other files, and their selection and arrangement (the "Site Content"), are the proprietary property of the Company, its users or its licensors with all rights reserved.

So chances are it is a licensing arrangement. Facebook isn't claiming copyright on your material with this statement, just the license to use it on their site without repercussion. This part of the agreement is making it clear that the material it provides to the general public is copyright to the respective owners.

A more relevant section would be the one titled User Content Posted On Site which includes the following:

Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content.

You are correct about the archive copies, though this kind of license would be necessary if the entire site was backed up regularly. I expect once again this is just to cover their own arses should the proverbial hit the fan.

Hope this helps!

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:27 am

Yeah. I guess you're right.

No matter whet you do - our music will end up on russian sites anyway. So I guess that's the back side of publishing your music online.

.m

Lo-Key Fu · Post by **Lo-Key Fu** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:33 am

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:No matter whet you do - our music will end up on russian sites anyway.

+1

4.33 · Post by **4.33** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:56 am

Lo-Key Fu wrote:
Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:No matter whet you do - our music will end up on russian sites anyway.
+1

yeah, we russians rule the world!

and we're mates with chinese too!!

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:03 am

4.33 wrote:yeah, we russians rule the world! and we're mates with chinese too!!

Human-rights-infringing-copyright-stealing-bootlegging bastards!

.m

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:08 am

Borzhmoi!

They do make cheap mixers, though.

4.33, is that your Siberian work-camp prisoner number?