Groove Armada's Andy Cato on Ableton and Logic

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
mentalese
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Re: Groove Armada's Andy Cato on Ableton and Logic

Post by mentalese » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:02 am

what I do is this:

play without a metronome
finish and press stop
tap the tap tempo at the same speed I was just playing
go into the pattern I just played and select the bit where I actually got it right
use "stretch midi" to get my 8 bars to fill 8 bars
done!


that works really well, no metronome and lots of fluidity

I was wondering, would you mind going into more detail about this for me. Im new to Live and im not sure I understand. How do you tap the tap tempo at the same speed as the beat. and how do you stretch the midi into 8 bars?
Thanks for your help.

Angstrom
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Re: Groove Armada's Andy Cato on Ableton and Logic

Post by Angstrom » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:17 pm

did I say that? It must have been ages ago.

I'm not really sure what else to say, I'll try though:
  1. with nothing at all playing I simply press record in a clip, and start playing my keyboard part.
  2. Then, when I am finished, I press the main stop and using the rhythm of my brain (which can still remember what I tempo my part is at) I tap tap tap upon the Tap Tempo button (top left)It then usually reads something like 105.14BPM
  3. I look at my part which I just played, in the clip midi editor, my notes will be all off the markers and not related at all to the correct timing of the app, because I recorded it at an unrelated tempo. No problem.
  4. I move my notes so they begin at the start of the pattern, sometimes my part ought to start on beat 3, but whatever, I'll fix that later.
  5. I look at the part and will be able to see where the four bar figures repeat (EG : "Aha, there's the D minor which starts the bar, I can see it regularly repeating")
  6. I select all the midi notes in the part and use the context menu for them to select 'stretch midi notes'.
  7. I stretch the midi notes so that the 'D minor' (in this example) recurrs on ever fourth bar
  8. I play it back with the metronome on to check I have it right.
  9. If required I make the part start on it's correct beat in the bar (if it is not really meant to start on the 1)
  10. I usually edit the BPM at this point to make it a nice round number, otherwise I will regret it later.
hmmm, that's about it

it sounds more complex than it is.
the whole 'sorting out' phase takes about 5 or 10 seconds

nebulae
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Re: Groove Armada's Andy Cato on Ableton and Logic

Post by nebulae » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:18 pm

@OP - not having read the interview, I wanted to comment on your post, which is your interpretation of what you read...

Bottom line is that Live can do just about anything any other DAW can do. Some things take more steps in Live, while others take less. When people say one tool is more sophisticated than other, that says to me that the person making such a comment is most comfortable with the more "sophisticated" tool. In this case, Logic.

I won't debate whether Logic has more features and more bells and whistles. We all know it does. But when it comes to making music, the DAW you use won't affect how "sophisticated" your beats are. Your imagination and musicality will.
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Angstrom
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Re:

Post by Angstrom » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:57 pm

Hey Neb - this post is really old.
I only replied to it because Mentalese was asking about exactly how to record without the metronome.

But as regards the original post, and specifically the interview - a lot of the issues are dealt with by Live 8.
Angstrom wrote:they are talking about needing crossfades on the same track to tame some audio loops.
The idea being that the "little string part on the end" will get cut off unpleasantly on a raw loop, and Live has no audio tool to handle crossfades in the same channel.
So that makes sense, it's not the midi editing, but the audio crossfading / comping
obviously Live now does have a method of doing that.
but this thread is from precisely one year ago.

nebulae
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Re: Groove Armada's Andy Cato on Ableton and Logic

Post by nebulae » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:19 pm

^ cool, thanks, Angy. I just wanted to respond to newbies who might be just coming online due to the latest push.

As for the new features of Live 8, it's still blowing my mind that a clip has crossfade CURVES but automation and clip envelopes are still lines. Classic WTF.
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Angstrom
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Re: Groove Armada's Andy Cato on Ableton and Logic

Post by Angstrom » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:34 pm

nebulae wrote: As for the new features of Live 8, it's still blowing my mind that a clip has crossfade CURVES but automation and clip envelopes are still lines. Classic WTF.
The reason they are not in L8 (IMO) is that the implementation of curves on automation is much more complex than on a fade. For various reasons.

On a fade the curve is going in, or it is going out and there is a curve-shape for that curve.
On an automation there is much more complexity: up,down,up, really down ...off in fact, up to the top again, wibble about a bit, etc.

Now, the crossfade system is fine and dandy for handling the big brutal single curves of a fade, but imagine a bar packed with a a large amount of such curves, perhaps your wibbling might produce 20 up/down movements in a bar, each with differing rates and curve shapes.
Where are the handles for these? How are they represented? Does the solution interpret old automation well? how do they interact with the 'pen' tool? etc etc...
Fade Curves of course do not have to handle any 'old' legacy automation, as they are completely new.

so that's why they are not in L8, because it's a can of worms - not simply a straight copy and paste of a code block ;)

nebulae
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Re: Groove Armada's Andy Cato on Ableton and Logic

Post by nebulae » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:03 pm

^ yeah, I know it's a much deeper fix, but I think these are some of the basic issues that keep people saying crap like Live's not as good as Logic :)

but yes, your explanaiton makes sense.
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