Treated Rooms...what a load of - <insert reality here>

[roby]

You can only get good mixes on a Pro Tools HD system mixing with a Lemur. Eveything else is lies.

and Waves plugins

[3dot...]

You can only get good mixes on a Pro Tools HD system mixing with a Lemur. Eveything else is lies.

and Waves plugins

check...

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=6629

[Mesmer]

Also important is your cost in terms of TIME.
if Time is money, then consider that to get a nice mix you might have to invest 2x times in an untreated room to get a decent mix - _relative_ to the 1x for a treated room.

This is exaggerated. Your ears might adapt, and you'd likely get your time-to-done time lower and lower ... but still, you'd be probably developing crutches and bad-habits because you couldn't just go to another friend's mixing room and pick up there .

that's what I think.

[fishmonkey]

actually your ears and the corresponding neural circuitry in your head/brain are amazing, and much more sensitive and sophisticated than you might think...

recent research in hearing loss due to noise (earbuds are fucked for your hearing btw, i never use them anymore) has confirmed that your sense of hearing (including pitch) depends a lot on temporal effects...

so whacky phase interactions in a badly treated room have more effects than simple peaks and troughs in the freq spectrum...

also, the natural reverb of a room is an important part of the sound you hear from your speakers (unless you are in an anechoic chamber)... that's why it can be tricky to judge reverb on headphones, but that's another whole story...

in the end you're not necessarily trying to treat your room to remove all it's character, but rather trying to even out the really overreactive bits...

finally, some people with highly attuned hearing can really pick up resonances and phase effects really easily; a while back i worked with a sound guy with uncanny hearing (he compensated with crap people skills)...

[gjm]

This thread pisses me off

[DrXparaMental]

This thread pisses me off

I suppose this is something to do with money? I say that because I also wish I had an unlimited supply. That's one thing about DIY studio/audio engineering stuff, it has NO monetary ceiling.

[gomi]

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm


i love those guys, they are complete nutters...


check out the rest of their voodoo.

audiophiles are indeed a stupid and braindead lot.

[DrXparaMental]

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm


i love those guys, they are complete nutters...


check out the rest of their voodoo.

audiophiles are indeed a stupid and braindead lot.

said Beavis...

[gjm]

This thread pisses me off

I suppose this is something to do with money? I say that because I also wish I had an unlimited supply. That's one thing about DIY studio/audio engineering stuff, it has NO monetary ceiling.

You got half way there. I basicly spent 20min writing a response only to delete it because I would be coming accross as a noob/novice talking about something I know nothing about So after giving notice of my very amature status and at the risk of being flamed, I will say as best as I can what came to mind.

Firstly, and perhaps I have got it totally wrong, but no one has stated the obvious, and that is that this issue is TOTALLY subjective. No one has the same pair of ears, and everyone has varying experiences and opinions built up over time. There are less than 'perfect' studio environments all over the world yet people get the job done with the gear they have. Don't get me wrong, there is no substitue for good gear and the strategic use of the laws of sound, but an F1 racing car is still not competitive in the hands of the average daily driver.

So secondly, there has to be some recognition of the fact that throwing money and gear at your studio environment has limited benefit. Even the speakers you choose can be wasted on you if you lack the experience gained over time to know what you are actually listening for. As a novice, realistically, buying your first set of monitors is a stab in the dark anyway. There are so many variables that make the process of learning to use your ears so very personal. Any number of people on this forum could walk into my 'studio environment' and roll their eyes at my amature attempt to control sound, but they could also probably just get on with the job of making and mixing sound and simple get the job done to the point that if my environment limited them in some way they would simply say, we have to go somewhere else to do this last part.... and we are probably going to have to pay for someone elses time and experience.

[Tone Deft]

gjm -
1. subjectiveness - it doesn't have to be. I was working in a studio and we didn't like the bass, we ALL heard it, it was obvious. so we took a JBL monitor from a stand and put it on the floor, instant BOOM, which leads me to point 2

2. you can do simple, FREE things to improve the sound of your studio. did I need to buy Auralex pads for my monitors? no, any open cell foam will do, I was just too lazy to look for an alternative. put a rug in your room, you may already have one, angle your monitors right, set that at the right height with a brick (usually free)


I think you undersell yourself, as a musician and music teacher I'm sure your ears and common sense of listening have taught you tons, you just need a little time to get into this computer shit.

[Landser]

gjm,
in another thread i posted a solution for around EUR 70,- to improve the acoustics of the monitoring spot.
It's definately not a matter of money. Only a matter of knowledge and the will to do the most important thing first, instead of buying new toys.

[DrXparaMental]

I agree that there is no substitute for experience gained from real applied knowledge, BUT, the whole point here is underlining the "absolutes" with respect to sound engineering. Whereas it's very true that everyone's ears can be considered as unique, they still function basically the same way and are very much subject to the basic laws of sound. This has NOTHING to do with being "an audiophile" This has everything to do with one basic concept. That concept is efficiency. Less time and trouble spent doing something and doing it well. Period. It's more about the most exacting and SIMPLE way to do things rather than the most complex and expensive way. If your speakers are a flat and accurate reference coupled with as good a listening environment as is possible, your done. Life is easier because you are compensating less for an inaccurate representation of what your mix consists of. The flatter and more true sound will translate in multiple environments with greater efficiency. What I am on my way to learning now (thanks to this thread) is "sound law" and basically how to make the most of my crummy room despite it's disadvantages.

Isn't it weird how the truth (accurate knowledge) is the shortest distance between here and your goals?

[ethios4]

i was pretty skeptical about acoustic treatment myself, particularly acoustic foam. I bought 40 square feet of remnant foam on ebay for $50, put it up behind my monitors, and was actually quite impressed with the difference it made. I can definitely hear more detail and clarity in the upper mids and highs than before. I attribute this to the acoustic foam preventing the tiny echoes from blurring the sound.

Practically, what this means for me is that I can actually hear what is really going on in my hi-hats, rather than hearing the hi-hats mixed with room echo.

[Dominik]

http://www.klein-hummel.com/klein-humme ... itors_O300

that's all you need for the next 30 years!

ALL!



(that's my k&h speakers.already 30 years old...yes i got them used)

[Landser]

Dominik, if you can't read, why do you post anyway?