ot... Mars Phoenix Lander

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

The Mars Phoenix Lander will...

Land and kick ass
9
25%
Crash and burn
1
3%
Have a rough landing with only partial systems intact
1
3%
Ummm, whatever
2
6%
Jessica Biel has a nice ass
23
64%
 
Total votes: 36

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Mon May 26, 2008 4:53 am

landrvr1 wrote:
knotkranky wrote: But... there was only 66 years between Kittyhawk and the moon landing 8O
...and that's really what it's all about. We've completely squandered the time since the moon landing with that goofy Space Shuttle. Okay, the Space Shuttle is kinda cool, but. But.

But the Shuttle program completely lacks the basic ingredients of any cool space endeavor: mystery, imagination, adventure. Sure one of them blows up every so often, but beyond that who gives a shit? Ho hum. Another shuttle mission.

It's pretty depressing when you think of how far we've got to go in order to even scratch the surface of the kind of basic tech you see in sciFi flicks. Fuck Mars. How about devoting all our energies and resources to developing faster than light travel? We could visit Mars in the morning and be back in time for lunch. Of course, everyone knows you can't go faster than light in terms of velocity, but Einstein left a nice wide opening in his theory that basically says your golden if you can figure out how to do what the universe already does naturally to a certain degree: fold the fabric of space time.

Warp Drive (and the ever-loving-cool Warp Bubble) here we come!
Ya know, I can't help but go to the human brain at this point. What if we are all trapped in our own constructs. it's all in our heads. Speed of light limits and such. Did einstein really find the edges of physical possibilities or are we bound to it by believing it. Ya know the flat earth period and all that. Every age has thought small. Why are we any better today? One can easily assume from history that the world is thinking very small right now.

adventurepants_
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Post by adventurepants_ » Mon May 26, 2008 4:55 am

if anyone is interested, this podcast is an excellent introduction to many of the concepts in astronomy today. factual, but fun and in 30 min pieces.

http://www.astronomycast.com/

landrvr1
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Post by landrvr1 » Mon May 26, 2008 4:56 am

forge wrote:maybe well get to mars when we figure out what neutrinos are up to - or whatever those things are that apparently jump through space and maybe time - my complete coffee table ignorance of physics is showing now
I think it might be Tachyons that you're after here. Tiny little things that supposedly go FTL. Purely theoretical at this point.

dcease
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Post by dcease » Mon May 26, 2008 5:00 am

knotkranky wrote:One can easily assume from history that the world is thinking very small right now.
and yet we think we think sooo big. fuck... we are small... how big can we think :?: :wink:

glu
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Post by glu » Mon May 26, 2008 5:03 am

It's about resources and space wars.

edit- also notice the usage of the word "terror" throughout the media.
Last edited by glu on Mon May 26, 2008 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
no prevailing genre of music:
http://alonetone.com/glu

Dominik
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Post by Dominik » Mon May 26, 2008 5:07 am

the nasa fag made...he.he.he.

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Mon May 26, 2008 5:14 am

dcease wrote:
knotkranky wrote:One can easily assume from history that the world is thinking very small right now.
and yet we think we think sooo big. fuck... we are small... how big can we think :?: :wink:
We think big by biting off too big a chunk, but that's par for the course. Columbus sailed past his current navigation references. So it's big balls thinking I guess. Big giant balls and lots of suicide missions. Some one's gonna get one every once in a while. That's basically how it goes and then one thing leads to another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbCNycm ... re=related

landrvr1
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Post by landrvr1 » Mon May 26, 2008 5:15 am

adventurepants_ wrote:
forge wrote:
knotkranky wrote:.. there was only 66 years between Kittyhawk and the moon landing 8O
yeah - and there is no question progress happens much quicker now than it did then

personally I think it's incredibly unlikely that there is NOT life on other planets, but if they can travel here then they will have probably needed to develop some way of stepping through space - which I'd believe could be possible - going A to B just isn't going to be possible for anyone anywhere as the nearest possible planets are at least a whole human life time away at the speed of light

maybe well get to mars when we figure out what neutrinos are up to - or whatever those things are that apparently jump through space and maybe time - my complete coffee table ignorance of physics is showing now
i would bet the farm that there is other life in the universe. the main problem is that given the size and age of the universe, the likelyhood that any two societies would actually reach the technology required for sustained spaceflight, and be close enough to meet each other, in the same timeframe is infinitesimal.
Heehee. I dunno dude. The argument against that is the unbelievable numbers that chip away at the 'infinitesimal'.

There's around 300 billion or so galaxies in our known universe. That number seems to vary depending on the source, but pretty solid nonetheless. The average galaxy has something like 150 billion stars. That's 300billion x 150billion = a fuck of a lot of potential for life to meet. It only takes 2 societies with the capability for FTL travel; regardless of when they developed it or how long they've been using it.

adventurepants_
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Post by adventurepants_ » Mon May 26, 2008 5:22 am

glu wrote:It's about resources and space wars.

edit- also notice the usage of the word "terror" throughout the media.
i think youre reaching on that one. '7 minutes of terror' is a fine way to describe what JPL engineers are feeling when years and years of work comes down to 7 minutes where any one of a thousand things can go wrong.

landrvr1
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Post by landrvr1 » Mon May 26, 2008 5:33 am

knotkranky wrote:
landrvr1 wrote:
knotkranky wrote: But... there was only 66 years between Kittyhawk and the moon landing 8O
...and that's really what it's all about. We've completely squandered the time since the moon landing with that goofy Space Shuttle. Okay, the Space Shuttle is kinda cool, but. But.

But the Shuttle program completely lacks the basic ingredients of any cool space endeavor: mystery, imagination, adventure. Sure one of them blows up every so often, but beyond that who gives a shit? Ho hum. Another shuttle mission.

It's pretty depressing when you think of how far we've got to go in order to even scratch the surface of the kind of basic tech you see in sciFi flicks. Fuck Mars. How about devoting all our energies and resources to developing faster than light travel? We could visit Mars in the morning and be back in time for lunch. Of course, everyone knows you can't go faster than light in terms of velocity, but Einstein left a nice wide opening in his theory that basically says your golden if you can figure out how to do what the universe already does naturally to a certain degree: fold the fabric of space time.

Warp Drive (and the ever-loving-cool Warp Bubble) here we come!
Ya know, I can't help but go to the human brain at this point. What if we are all trapped in our own constructs. it's all in our heads. Speed of light limits and such. Did einstein really find the edges of physical possibilities or are we bound to it by believing it. Ya know the flat earth period and all that. Every age has thought small. Why are we any better today? One can easily assume from history that the world is thinking very small right now.
A most excellent point, and something that I always discuss with a friend of mine. There are things that we cannot even conceive of that have yet to be discovered; probably sooner rather than later. Some incredible revelation that we'll stumble upon that turns everything on it's head. It's the way it's always been. Tachyons were/are a result of that. It's pure theory, but created in order to challenge conventional wisdom.

Traveling faster than light through pure velocity is probably impossible. But as I said, Einstein himself left the door wide open for extreme possibilities, heh.

Speaking of which, what's needed for any kind of FTL travel is a nearly incomprehensible amount of energy. I mean, shit, if you're going to create vast amounts of artificial gravity in order to bend space/time the old standbys like nuclear fusion and chemical propulsion aren't going to cut it. Most physicists who study FTL theory point to one source: anti-Matter. Yet another Star Trek reference and something that's very real indeed.

Bah, where's Zefram Cochran when you need him?

adventurepants_
Posts: 1773
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 3:05 am

Post by adventurepants_ » Mon May 26, 2008 5:38 am

landrvr1 wrote:
adventurepants_ wrote:
forge wrote: yeah - and there is no question progress happens much quicker now than it did then

personally I think it's incredibly unlikely that there is NOT life on other planets, but if they can travel here then they will have probably needed to develop some way of stepping through space - which I'd believe could be possible - going A to B just isn't going to be possible for anyone anywhere as the nearest possible planets are at least a whole human life time away at the speed of light

maybe well get to mars when we figure out what neutrinos are up to - or whatever those things are that apparently jump through space and maybe time - my complete coffee table ignorance of physics is showing now
i would bet the farm that there is other life in the universe. the main problem is that given the size and age of the universe, the likelyhood that any two societies would actually reach the technology required for sustained spaceflight, and be close enough to meet each other, in the same timeframe is infinitesimal.
Heehee. I dunno dude. The argument against that is the unbelievable numbers that chip away at the 'infinitesimal'.

There's around 300 billion or so galaxies in our known universe. That number seems to vary depending on the source, but pretty solid nonetheless. The average galaxy has something like 150 billion stars. That's 300billion x 150billion = a fuck of a lot of potential for life to meet. It only takes 2 societies with the capability for FTL travel; regardless of when they developed it or how long they've been using it.
you could use those exact same numbers, and throw in a timescale of billions of years, to say that its nearly impossible for those 2 societies to meet. I love thinking about this stuff though.

maybe aliens have been communicating with us for years using gravitons, and we're just not advanced enough to decode it!

dcease
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Post by dcease » Mon May 26, 2008 5:57 am

there is some 8) sounds in that...

i always think about how i am going up... :wink: the discovery of bread amazes, and confounds me every time i eat a sandwich :lol:

timothyallan
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Contact:

Post by timothyallan » Mon May 26, 2008 6:06 am

I heard that the lander sent back an image for a split second before it was crushed... The image looked like this!


Image

adventurepants_
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Post by adventurepants_ » Mon May 26, 2008 7:33 am

^^^^

you utter frigging creep.

can you remove that shit from your post and go back to the AFL forums where that kind of thing is considered funny?

some people are reading this at work you tool. :roll:

forge
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Post by forge » Mon May 26, 2008 9:11 am

adventurepants_ wrote:
forge wrote:
adventurepants_ wrote: i would bet the farm that there is other life in the universe. the main problem is that given the size and age of the universe, the likelyhood that any two societies would actually reach the technology required for sustained spaceflight, and be close enough to meet each other, in the same timeframe is infinitesimal.
see I don;t agree with this - for the simple reason that if you think about it the technological level we are at now really has happened over the space of about 350 years since the industrial revolution

before then technology made really pretty small steps and technology wasn't a great deal different to what the Romans, Greeks and Persians etc had

so it is possible to go from inventing steam power to space flight and mapping the human DNA in under 400 years

that is an unbelievably small amount of time in cosmic terms to make such a massive leap

what if one other planet didn't have giant dangerous reptiles and the bi-pedal life forms with clever brains evolved 400 million years earlier?

and if the universe really is infinite then there are probably billions of worlds like this

I think tone deft's picture probably sums it up - we're probably being observed, but any higher intelligence must surely see there are too many reasons to not interfere - first there;s the chance we'll nuke them, but second they probably want to see what we do - it must be fascinating
i dont think you appreciate the scale of the universe. our nearest star is about 5 light years away. thats 5 years travel time at the speed of light. an average star is literally thousands of light years away. so even if they were sending us the encylopedia galactica encoded into the wavelength of light, it would take thousands, tens of thousands or millions of years to reach us.

plenty of time for a civilisation to grow, develop and die out from its own hand or an extinction event.
(don't look now but your post count is 666! :twisted: )

that is based on the assumption that travel will involve A to B in the linear way we perceive it now

my point is we have only got to where we are now in about 350 years so we probably have a very long way to go and a lot to learn - one thing we know for sure is there is a hell of a lot that we can't explain

to me it seems perfectly feasible that there could be a form of travel that doesnt involve the 3 dimensional 'miles per hour' limitations we are used to

anyone who's had a psychedelic experience of any kind has probably had some kind of experience of the illogical simultaneous appreciation of the vastness of the universe while at the same time seeing the wholeness and completeness of the universe as one great entity

like the whole fractal thing where any one point is basically any other point at once - the same shit Buddha was on about (and many others)

okay so I sound like a tripped out hippy now, but I'm just saying that I think with logic alone based on our current understanding of physics we're just nowhere near having all the answers, so maybe it will possible one day to somehow figure out how [tachyons - or whatever it is] work and harness the force that makes them work and use it on a small enough scale to power a flying saucer

you dont know that will never happen!

:lol:

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