Ableton Forum

dj_huck wrote:the smoking argument is ridiculous.

curious?

hambone1 wrote:Porn (like violence) is now so prevalent in on the web that it no longer shocks or offends me. I'm numb to it. It doesn't really matter to me any more.

IMO, it's nothing more than a sad substitute for real human interaction, and if there was no demand for it, it would disappear.

Yeah, but you don't work in a corporate office and correct me if I'm wrong, have any children living in your home

Getting mad about offensive pics at the office or at home(if you have kids) I totally can understand. Children seeing porno pics here is not cool. Sorry, children are not prepared to comprehend some or most of the images posted here. For the most part, it may not effect them in the end, but some kids can be totally influenced in a bad way.

Remember, kids look up to their environment- positive or negative. So what would you like your or other children to be influenced by?

Not a thought or sermon, just a fact.
Thomas

dj_huck wrote:typical ableton forum discussion. way to stay on topic. way to be civil to each other. the smoking argument is ridiculous. i think that porn is not the only problem on this forum. 4000+ post pricks are a problem too

you've just posted off-topic, and pretty fuckin rudely at that, well done! how's your sense of irony today?

An ex-colleague of mine (in the teaching profession) clicked a couple of porn links some time back. Apparently suprised by how much porn interested him, he looked at some more. Little by little it got under his skin and he became addicted to looking at porn, even though he was a happily married man with children and grandchildren. Months later he signed up using a credit card to look at even more porn, and by now some of the images he was looking at were crossing the legality line. Several months past and then one morning there was a knock at his door and 8 police offices were there with a search warrant.

At that moment his career as a teacher ended. As a registered "sex offender" he cannot even work in a shop in future. He is not allowed to see his own grandchildren, and may well soon lose his wife and his house too. He has been sacked from his music job in a church and can no longer attend. Once his case goes to court he may even go to prison.

Porn exploits the vulnerable. It is a totally sick business that destroys lives. The demand for ever more exploitative porn leads to the abuse of children and the vulnerable in ways that are just horrific. Porn dehumanises all involved with it. If you want to side with that on the basis of "personal freedom", be advised that with "freedom" comes "responsibility" and if you abuse it then I agree with society in general that you should lose it.

To find porn on my favourite music software companies forum repulses me. As for the indifference some have about this, well, I can't have much respect for those who are too stupid to see how harmful it is.

ehem...
Yeah very bad, but thats a porn *addiction*... Ive seen people on my job that are addicted to abusive forms of pr0n, even child-pr0n.
They would never touch children (guess so, but who knows?).

On the other side are the children fuckers.
Lock them up, throw the key away!

You have to draw a line and i think that the american way (making sex offenses public, or better: destroy peoples lifes even if they are ADDICTED TO INTERNET PORN) is as wrong as the german way (do friggin nuthin bout it! you molester children you get 2 years on parole).

children fucking is a bad topic,

303

forge wrote:20% people smoke where I live, why should the 80% have to breathe their smoke?

Right on. Smoking is my #1 most hated thing on earth and they've finally passed laws in my state that totally bans smoking in any establishment that is 18 and up any day(s) during the week. Only some 21+ places are smoker friendly, and I avoid all of them like the plague because I don't like my eyes burning and me smelling like a nicotine bath when I get home. I think full public smoking bans are in the works, and they can't come a moment too soon.

I know smoking has nothing to do with the thread topic, but I had to reply and I can relate to that.

suburbanbather wrote:

hambone1 wrote:Porn (like violence) is now so prevalent in on the web that it no longer shocks or offends me. I'm numb to it. It doesn't really matter to me any more.

IMO, it's nothing more than a sad substitute for real human interaction, and if there was no demand for it, it would disappear.

Yeah, but you don't work in a corporate office and correct me if I'm wrong, have any children living in your home.

Good point.

As I said, if people got real lives and the demand for porn disappeared, the porn would disappear, too.

In an ideal world, perhaps...

Dr. TaaDow wrote:

forge wrote:20% people smoke where I live, why should the 80% have to breathe their smoke?

Right on. Smoking is my #1 most hated thing on earth and they've finally passed laws in my state that totally bans smoking in any establishment that is 18 and up any day(s) during the week. Only some 21+ places are smoker friendly, and I avoid all of them like the plague because I don't like my eyes burning and me smelling like a nicotine bath when I get home. I think full public smoking bans are in the works, and they can't come a moment too soon.

I know smoking has nothing to do with the thread topic, but I had to reply and I can relate to that.

I don't like smokers anymore than anybody else, and I voted to outlaw smoking in restaurants and bars. Unfortunately I didn't think about the externalities of my decision.

So, now when I go out with friends who smoke, in order to continue a conversation, I have to get up and go outside with them to smoke. This to me a major inconvenience. Waiting for people to finish a cigarette before we walk into any establishment is major buzz kill for me.

anywayz, here's something to tie the porn thing to the smoking thing - the article is actually about price discrimination but a couple paragraphs cut to the heart of what I'm saying.

it is from the Jewish World Review

you can read the whole article Here

it is not a statement on the MORALITY of pornography or cigarettes but peoples rights under a certain framework i.e. Ableton's forum which allows spam bots to reply to active threads with porn.

here is a couple paragraphs from the Walter Williams article

Think again; tyrants have an endless agenda. The cigarette Nazis said they didn't care about what people did to their own lungs; they only cared about the health effects on others — secondhand smoke. I said that's a smoke screen to conceal their true agenda. In California, there's a movement to outlaw smoking on beaches, many outdoor stadiums have banned smoking, and there have been attempts to ban smoking on streets and parks. I'd like to see the health study pointing to the deaths and injuries stemming from secondhand smoke outdoors.


The bottom line here isn't ladies' night or smoking. It's how we Americans are allowing tyrants to attack our liberties. If we allow them to continue, once we wake up we won't have enough freedom to stop them from turning us into a nation of serfs.

fyi, I do not agree with his use of the word Nazi.

If Ableton changes their policy, cool - that makes it easier for everyone and no one will probably complain (I wont)

djadonis206 wrote: I don't like smokers anymore than anybody else, and I voted to outlaw smoking in restaurants and bars. Unfortunately I didn't think about the externalities of my decision.

........

here is a couple paragraphs from the Walter Williams article

Think again; tyrants have an endless agenda. The cigarette Nazis said they didn't care about what people did to their own lungs; they only cared about the health effects on others — secondhand smoke. I said that's a smoke screen to conceal their true agenda. In California, there's a movement to outlaw smoking on beaches, many outdoor stadiums have banned smoking, and there have been attempts to ban smoking on streets and parks. I'd like to see the health study pointing to the deaths and injuries stemming from secondhand smoke outdoors.


The bottom line here isn't ladies' night or smoking. It's how we Americans are allowing tyrants to attack our liberties. If we allow them to continue, once we wake up we won't have enough freedom to stop them from turning us into a nation of serfs.

fyi, I do not agree with his use of the word Nazi.

If Ableton changes their policy, cool - that makes it easier for everyone and no one will probably complain (I wont)

Anti-smoking legislation is hardly the hallmark of a draconian society, only one that has finally recognized that a socially acceptable behavior is lethal....we'll see the same things with skin cancer & cell phone usage in the next 20 years I'm sure.

However, we are loosing our rights...police can pull you over for no reason and force an illegal search of your person & vehicle, they can mistakenly break into your home without a warrant and shoot to kill without consequence; and if you should ever defend yourself from attack from those who the police cannot protect us from with a firearm, manslaughter baby. Your packages can be x-rayed when shipped, your conversations can be tapped without warrant, and your email is probably being searched for keywords.

Cops do nothing to prevent real crime and very little to solve it in my area, and all it takes is 9 months of police academy at the local junior college to give these mental midgets godlike powers over the average citizens life.

......

RE: porn, porn on its own I have no problem with, I've looked at porn from time to time since puberty; our uptight puritanical roots are what creates very unhealthy sexual attitudes among Americans, not looking at porn. If a kid sees porn, and has a healthy communicative family, it shouldn't be a problem...wasn't for me anyway, hippy parents & shit. Curious to here a European's opinion on this...European countries seem way more open and healthy regarding sexuality.

hambone1 wrote:

suburbanbather wrote:

hambone1 wrote:Porn (like violence) is now so prevalent in on the web that it no longer shocks or offends me. I'm numb to it. It doesn't really matter to me any more.

IMO, it's nothing more than a sad substitute for real human interaction, and if there was no demand for it, it would disappear.

Yeah, but you don't work in a corporate office and correct me if I'm wrong, have any children living in your home.

Good point.

As I said, if people got real lives and the demand for porn disappeared, the porn would disappear, too.

In an ideal world, perhaps...

yeah in an ideal world - I would bet a large sum of money that the majority of the people who look at porn are in relationships or married

a lot of women are not into sex anything like as much as men

remember - 1 egg per month versus 300 million sperm a day - men and women have different agendas

there is nothing wrong with porn, I just dont want it on my screen unexpected

djadonis206 wrote: I don't like smokers anymore than anybody else, and I voted to outlaw smoking in restaurants and bars. Unfortunately I didn't think about the externalities of my decision.

So, now when I go out with friends who smoke, in order to continue a conversation, I have to get up and go outside with them to smoke. This to me a major inconvenience. Waiting for people to finish a cigarette before we walk into any establishment is major buzz kill for me.

The question must be: Then why do you do those things? Surely you are not giving anyone incentive to change if you keep following them outside to smoke, or keep waiting outside for them to finish smoking?

I vote that your friends could do better, and actually just respect your company.
a.

Shrimp salad sammich and then a clove cigarette?

Cripes...

Machinate wrote:

djadonis206 wrote: I don't like smokers anymore than anybody else, and I voted to outlaw smoking in restaurants and bars. Unfortunately I didn't think about the externalities of my decision.

So, now when I go out with friends who smoke, in order to continue a conversation, I have to get up and go outside with them to smoke. This to me a major inconvenience. Waiting for people to finish a cigarette before we walk into any establishment is major buzz kill for me.

The question must be: Then why do you do those things? Surely you are not giving anyone incentive to change if you keep following them outside to smoke, or keep waiting outside for them to finish smoking?

I vote that your friends could do better, and actually just respect your company.
a.

smoking is their right

I have the choice to either, sit by myself for 5 to 10 minutes or stand outside with them while they smoke

they have the choice to either not smoke or smoke

both parties have a decision to make, if we're lucky we can agree on a compromise or compromise our position

but I'm in no position to tell someone to smoke or not to smoke regardless of how I morally feel about it

I believe equal rights means equal rights - not which ever rights are to my liking

djadonis206 wrote: smoking is their right

I have the choice to either, sit by myself for 5 to 10 minutes or stand outside with them while they smoke

they have the choice to either not smoke or smoke

both parties have a decision to make, if we're lucky we can agree on a compromise or compromise our position

but I'm in no position to tell someone to smoke or not to smoke regardless of how I morally feel about it

I believe equal rights means equal rights - not which ever rights are to my liking

At this point I'd like to ask you to re-read what I wrote
Of course it's their right, but by your own statement you follow them outside if you wish to continue a conversation - then why on earth should they meet you half-way?

Because we do come to compromises from time to time, we're having a good conversation, or I'm out with a hot girl I can't keep my eyes off of...