CD's great !
Just picked it up today. There's nobody else in hip hop who can lyrically compare, and this cd just confirm's that.
CM
New lil wayne cd
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telepathy51
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i listen to alot of music... metal, rap, electronic, folk, and a bunch of other stuff. I bought (downloaded/stole) Lil Wayne's newest effort because of the hype i've heard surrounding it.
I have to admit i never was a fan but I was curious so here is what i think. There are some real nice beats on that album, but i don't see what the big deal about this dudes lyrics are. He seems kinda silly to me. "I'm the shit get the fuck up out my toilet", this isn't a lyric that seems like a lyrical genius would come up with and he seems to rhyme words with the SAME word, LAME! It's like a comedian laughing at his own joke. Maybe he has had a bit much syrup to drink and it's messing with his mind.
Immortal Technique, Talib Kweli, Nas, Sage Francis, Stic Man (from Dead Prez), Adrea 3000, Scarface, Jay-Z, & Saul Williams all seem to have better flow and more substance than Lil Wayne but thats the opinion of a 31 year old white guy so it don't really matter.
I have to admit i never was a fan but I was curious so here is what i think. There are some real nice beats on that album, but i don't see what the big deal about this dudes lyrics are. He seems kinda silly to me. "I'm the shit get the fuck up out my toilet", this isn't a lyric that seems like a lyrical genius would come up with and he seems to rhyme words with the SAME word, LAME! It's like a comedian laughing at his own joke. Maybe he has had a bit much syrup to drink and it's messing with his mind.
Immortal Technique, Talib Kweli, Nas, Sage Francis, Stic Man (from Dead Prez), Adrea 3000, Scarface, Jay-Z, & Saul Williams all seem to have better flow and more substance than Lil Wayne but thats the opinion of a 31 year old white guy so it don't really matter.
Ryzen 7, MSI B550 Tomahawk.
Ableton 11 Suite
Multiple basses.
Ableton 11 Suite
Multiple basses.
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telepathy51
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i've met Static Major who produced "lollipop" in passing a few times, he came into the store i work at a few times. He passed away 3 months ago...he seemed like a good guy and he was a great producer, he did alot of stuff Timbaland took credit for. I'm not saying Waynes bad, i just dont see the hype him being a lyrical great.
Ryzen 7, MSI B550 Tomahawk.
Ableton 11 Suite
Multiple basses.
Ableton 11 Suite
Multiple basses.
I've heard alot of people say that Lil Wayne is actually a very talented MC.
I've heard some of his albums and mixtapes. He's decent (especially in comparison with other pop rap artists these days).
But compared to other real hip-hop artists... that's a whole other story.
Artists like that are just marketed well. People want him on their albums because he's a name, not necessarily because he's talented.
Overall, I think the common listener's standard for a good MC/hip-hop lyricist has fallen tremendously. The common person under 25 probably has never even heard of Immortal Technique, Sage Francis, or Saul Williams. They don't even know they exist because they aren't marketed to a huge demographic like the MTV audience.
You have to look really hard in order to find good hip-hop.
Think about it. If you're 13 years old and all you're exposed to is 50 Cent, Dipset, and Rick Ross (because any idiot can turn on the radio or change the channel to MTV) then chances are those are the people that are going to set your standards for what a good rap artist is.
People don't care about the quality of the music that much any more. THey just want something catchy and simple. Dumbed (for lack of a better term) down lyrics are probably going to allow you to reach a larger demographic (I love my country but believe it or not alot of the United States is pretty stoopid). They don't want to think too deeply about the lyrical content as long as the rapper is posturing and looks shiny and tough in the music video.
In fact chances are thats what you're going to think hip-hop is. It's the bling generation. They don't know who Busy Bee Starski, Percee P, or Guru are.
I've heard some of his albums and mixtapes. He's decent (especially in comparison with other pop rap artists these days).
But compared to other real hip-hop artists... that's a whole other story.
Artists like that are just marketed well. People want him on their albums because he's a name, not necessarily because he's talented.
Overall, I think the common listener's standard for a good MC/hip-hop lyricist has fallen tremendously. The common person under 25 probably has never even heard of Immortal Technique, Sage Francis, or Saul Williams. They don't even know they exist because they aren't marketed to a huge demographic like the MTV audience.
You have to look really hard in order to find good hip-hop.
Think about it. If you're 13 years old and all you're exposed to is 50 Cent, Dipset, and Rick Ross (because any idiot can turn on the radio or change the channel to MTV) then chances are those are the people that are going to set your standards for what a good rap artist is.
People don't care about the quality of the music that much any more. THey just want something catchy and simple. Dumbed (for lack of a better term) down lyrics are probably going to allow you to reach a larger demographic (I love my country but believe it or not alot of the United States is pretty stoopid). They don't want to think too deeply about the lyrical content as long as the rapper is posturing and looks shiny and tough in the music video.
In fact chances are thats what you're going to think hip-hop is. It's the bling generation. They don't know who Busy Bee Starski, Percee P, or Guru are.
I've heard the same and I have to say I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. I just can't see the big deal with Wayne or a lot of these other radio cats. Especially Wayne, his shit just bothers me.Tohtruck wrote:I've heard alot of people say......
Guru.....
But I'm 37, and Gang Starr defines hip hop for me.
Different strokes, to each their own, live and let live, etc. etc..
as much as i used to hate wayne, i'm kind of starting to come around to him. the jay z remix of "a millie" is the heat. the bass knocks super hard. if you dj, chances are you're going to have to play stuff with him on it. you gotta give the people what they want and he's huge right now. i'd love to be able to play bukem or shadow and chicks freak out like they do when lollipop comes on. that'll be the day.
Macbook 2ghz c2d, 2gb ram, osx 10.5.5, live 8.0.8, fw-1884, ms20, x-session, 2xLP
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starving student
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you heard it here first, thats going to be the next big thing, dope ass underground MCs on top of wack ass club beats. hmmm maybe i should try it out myself.
the thing is that dope mcs and djs write not only lyrics that speak volumes they also come at the music from the same standpoint so they are trying to speak to you through the music as well, and maybe they are not trying to tell you that you got a fat ass and you should shake it. but above ground the people are not trying to hear music that speaks to them, they don't care if its your grandma rappin as long as it knocks.
I have been against this kind of outlook all of my life and little wayne is garbage nothing personal against you cmreal04. but your thread has intrigued me and got me thinking, maybe i'll experiment a bit with some feverish club heat but lay some real dope shit on top of it.
the thing is that dope mcs and djs write not only lyrics that speak volumes they also come at the music from the same standpoint so they are trying to speak to you through the music as well, and maybe they are not trying to tell you that you got a fat ass and you should shake it. but above ground the people are not trying to hear music that speaks to them, they don't care if its your grandma rappin as long as it knocks.
I have been against this kind of outlook all of my life and little wayne is garbage nothing personal against you cmreal04. but your thread has intrigued me and got me thinking, maybe i'll experiment a bit with some feverish club heat but lay some real dope shit on top of it.
Hmmm i listen it, not my thing.
How to call it, mainstream hip hop..? dunno. aimed on a market where i am not into.
I can't take this serious for a reason. its just a big formula hearing that its made all to get kids money.
I prefer j dilla, q tip, tribe called quest, common... maybe as mainstream but .... more grown?.
o am i just a old fart with a different taste...hehe thats it
How to call it, mainstream hip hop..? dunno. aimed on a market where i am not into.
I can't take this serious for a reason. its just a big formula hearing that its made all to get kids money.
I prefer j dilla, q tip, tribe called quest, common... maybe as mainstream but .... more grown?.
o am i just a old fart with a different taste...hehe thats it
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telepathy51
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thesmallisbeautiful
- Posts: 103
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I love how people like to act like their tastes are somehow universal truths.
You like Sage Francis and think Wayne is nothing special. I disagree on both counts.
I mean, it's not like I think you're wrong and I'm right, but I see no reason why Sage and Saul and so forth are objectively better just because they happen to align more with what it is that you want from hip hop. I personally find Sage's lyrics to be extremely boring, and I think Saul, while an amazing writer and slam poet, has only made a couple of songs that I would ever want to listen to. Wayne on the other hand, fairly consistently writes verses that I find musically interesting. Wayne doesn't speak too much about politics (although he does occasionally), but I read books and newspapers when I want to learn about politics. When I listen to hip hop I'm listening to it for the musical content, and Wayne has a command of cadence and a sense of wordplay that is what I love about hip hop.
I also think that people throw around the idea that "people only like X,Y, or Z artists because they're stupid and being manipulated by marketing" way too much. I'm not stupid, I have been a working musician for 15 years now, and I am well aware of the role that marketing makes in "breaking" an act. That doesn't mean that the record labels can just manipulate people into liking whatever they want them to like. For every success in the major label game, there are 20 failures, at least. The same marketing machine went into trying to sell you the failure, but it didn't sell for some reason. It's really lazy and intellectually dishonest to try to use that way of thinking to discount any artist you don't like. The fact is that people make up their minds about what they like, it's just that major labels can introduce an artist to way more people, which gives a huge disproportionate skew in favor of big money acts.
Dipset, however, is not a major label act. They are on Koch, an indie label. They worked their way up grass roots style in NYC and North Jersey, and while they rarely make music that I'm interested in, they are "realer" hip hop than Saul, Sage and Immortal put together. They are a street culture group, and while they have a decent amount of success (albeit in the 100's of thousands of units more so than the millions), they are the very opposite of manufactured. Try going to Bed-Stuy in Brooklyn and telling the kids out there who bang dipset out of their radios that they are just stupid kids who don't understand real hip hop and that a white guy from Rhode Island is the real deal because he went to university and can use more sophisticated metaphors. I don't know, feels dirty to me.
And it's not like I fundamentally disagree with you musically I bet. I mostly listen to underground hip hop and cannot stand 99% of what's on the radio. I can't even stand about 75% of what Wayne puts out to be totally honest, but the guy makes 500 songs a year so there's still plenty to like. I am just against the idea of discounting what one artist does because it doesn't appeal to a richer, university educated audience.
I'm not saying anyone should like Wayne, or that anyone is wrong for not liking him, personal difference the beauty of taste. I am just tired of the same old "my underground hero is real and your mainstream rapper is fake" rah rah shit that has been going on for a good 12 years now at least. Most underground stuff nowadays is made for a 90% white, upper middle class audience. The streets in NYC are not bumping immortal technique (who I like tremendously).
Also, Busy Bee is probably best known for getting lyrically destroyed by Moe Dee, and is generally considered the very essence of a lightweight lyricist who was great at getting a crowd hyped up. That's the real original hip hop, getting people hyped with interesting vocal cadences. All this hard hitting lyrical stuff comes much later. Wayne doesn't really say much in the way of profound contemplative lyrics, but I like his cleverness (toilet line and about 75% of his other stuff notwithstanding) and the way he says his lines, and that doesn't make me stupid.
You like Sage Francis and think Wayne is nothing special. I disagree on both counts.
I mean, it's not like I think you're wrong and I'm right, but I see no reason why Sage and Saul and so forth are objectively better just because they happen to align more with what it is that you want from hip hop. I personally find Sage's lyrics to be extremely boring, and I think Saul, while an amazing writer and slam poet, has only made a couple of songs that I would ever want to listen to. Wayne on the other hand, fairly consistently writes verses that I find musically interesting. Wayne doesn't speak too much about politics (although he does occasionally), but I read books and newspapers when I want to learn about politics. When I listen to hip hop I'm listening to it for the musical content, and Wayne has a command of cadence and a sense of wordplay that is what I love about hip hop.
I also think that people throw around the idea that "people only like X,Y, or Z artists because they're stupid and being manipulated by marketing" way too much. I'm not stupid, I have been a working musician for 15 years now, and I am well aware of the role that marketing makes in "breaking" an act. That doesn't mean that the record labels can just manipulate people into liking whatever they want them to like. For every success in the major label game, there are 20 failures, at least. The same marketing machine went into trying to sell you the failure, but it didn't sell for some reason. It's really lazy and intellectually dishonest to try to use that way of thinking to discount any artist you don't like. The fact is that people make up their minds about what they like, it's just that major labels can introduce an artist to way more people, which gives a huge disproportionate skew in favor of big money acts.
Dipset, however, is not a major label act. They are on Koch, an indie label. They worked their way up grass roots style in NYC and North Jersey, and while they rarely make music that I'm interested in, they are "realer" hip hop than Saul, Sage and Immortal put together. They are a street culture group, and while they have a decent amount of success (albeit in the 100's of thousands of units more so than the millions), they are the very opposite of manufactured. Try going to Bed-Stuy in Brooklyn and telling the kids out there who bang dipset out of their radios that they are just stupid kids who don't understand real hip hop and that a white guy from Rhode Island is the real deal because he went to university and can use more sophisticated metaphors. I don't know, feels dirty to me.
And it's not like I fundamentally disagree with you musically I bet. I mostly listen to underground hip hop and cannot stand 99% of what's on the radio. I can't even stand about 75% of what Wayne puts out to be totally honest, but the guy makes 500 songs a year so there's still plenty to like. I am just against the idea of discounting what one artist does because it doesn't appeal to a richer, university educated audience.
I'm not saying anyone should like Wayne, or that anyone is wrong for not liking him, personal difference the beauty of taste. I am just tired of the same old "my underground hero is real and your mainstream rapper is fake" rah rah shit that has been going on for a good 12 years now at least. Most underground stuff nowadays is made for a 90% white, upper middle class audience. The streets in NYC are not bumping immortal technique (who I like tremendously).
Also, Busy Bee is probably best known for getting lyrically destroyed by Moe Dee, and is generally considered the very essence of a lightweight lyricist who was great at getting a crowd hyped up. That's the real original hip hop, getting people hyped with interesting vocal cadences. All this hard hitting lyrical stuff comes much later. Wayne doesn't really say much in the way of profound contemplative lyrics, but I like his cleverness (toilet line and about 75% of his other stuff notwithstanding) and the way he says his lines, and that doesn't make me stupid.
I tried to listen to the whole album last night.
It was a very painful experience.
Some of the beats were pretty good. I like "A Milli"
I'm no MC, writer, or poet but compared to other hip hop that I usually listen to; the lyrics were mediocre at best (just my opinion, I am college educated, but not white)
I hate when rappers rhyme the same word over. I feel like I'm listening to one of my foreign friends try to freestyle in english. And I do get the type of vibe you get when a comedian laughs at his own jokes but no one else is laughing.
Lil' Wayne's voice is really harsh to listen to and it seems like he even tries to sing on some of the tracks. He really sounds like an over-the-hill elderly woman on crack.
Weezy is not hip-hop's savior. If he is then hip-hop is seriously fukt.
I'm in my early 20s and I love hip hop music but this stuff does not appeal to me at all.
Just my opinion. Its perfectly healthy to disagree but goodluck trying to change my opinion about him.
It was a very painful experience.
Some of the beats were pretty good. I like "A Milli"
I'm no MC, writer, or poet but compared to other hip hop that I usually listen to; the lyrics were mediocre at best (just my opinion, I am college educated, but not white)
I hate when rappers rhyme the same word over. I feel like I'm listening to one of my foreign friends try to freestyle in english. And I do get the type of vibe you get when a comedian laughs at his own jokes but no one else is laughing.
Lil' Wayne's voice is really harsh to listen to and it seems like he even tries to sing on some of the tracks. He really sounds like an over-the-hill elderly woman on crack.
Weezy is not hip-hop's savior. If he is then hip-hop is seriously fukt.
I'm in my early 20s and I love hip hop music but this stuff does not appeal to me at all.
Just my opinion. Its perfectly healthy to disagree but goodluck trying to change my opinion about him.
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karmaofdove
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:49 pm
I grew up a B-Boy, straight up from the South Bronx in the 1980s and felt that there was nothing greater than Rap and the Hip Hop culture that had spawned.
I'm older now and find it difficult to get into anything that passes itself off as Hip Hop on the radio now a days. I recognize that there are many artists out there that continue with the vibe that was created so long ago - I just wished more attention were paid to those who keep it true.
My 2 cents.
I'm older now and find it difficult to get into anything that passes itself off as Hip Hop on the radio now a days. I recognize that there are many artists out there that continue with the vibe that was created so long ago - I just wished more attention were paid to those who keep it true.
My 2 cents.