"Our finger is on the trigger"

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
noisetonepause
Posts: 4938
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
Location: Sticks and stones

Post by noisetonepause » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:12 am

thelike5 wrote:Well aren't you the little fountain of knowledge!! :)
FYI: I am a fourth year student of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Copenhagen. I am one oral exam and a 20 page essay away from receiving a bachelor's degree in Iranian studies. I speak Persian, to some extent, and visited Iran this february.

One of my exams last semester was an essay on Khomeini's ideology and the history of the Islamic Republic. In addition to texts by scholars of Western universities, primarily Ervand Abrahamian (who is violently critical of the Khomeini and the Islamic Republic), it meant familiarising myself with what Khomeini himself wrote, as well as the constitution of the Islamic Republic.

I wouldn't call myself a fountain of knowledge by any stretch of the imagination, but I would hazard the guess that the list of books by reputable authors I've read on the subject is a little longer than yours?
If "they" removed a few "superlatives" or even rewrote the constitution(WTF? isn't that a red herring?) who's to say that if Ahmadinejad wants it they won't amened the description for him, too?
I'm not going to provide you with an account of what was changed to allow Khamenei to assume the title of Supreme Leader after Khomeini's death, unless you really do want it. And by "rewrote the constitute", I quite obviously meant rewrote parts of it. That's quite common in most countries that have a constitution, except the US. The Danish one was last changed in 1953 to allow a Queen to be the monarch, since our then-King had had only daughters.

Anyways, here's a quick description of why Ahmadinejad is not going to ever become the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic:

Khomeini's vision of the Islamic Republic is based on the idea that Islam is a complete legal system, providing rules and regulations for all aspects of human life, which was actually a rather innovative idea at the time. He concluded, at some point in the 1960's, that the only just society is one where all these laws are implemented exactly as they are described in the Qur'an and Islamic tradition (again, a rather innovative idea at the time, in spite of what you might have read).

He redefined the traditional concept of the Guardianship or Custodianship of the jurist (Velayat-e Faqih, you will most likely come across the term) from having meant a responsibility for those who could not take care of themselves to a guardianship over the whole of society and all legal matters.

The Islamic Republic and its constitution were founded on this idea, that the best of the jurists should ensure the complete and just society. The role obviously went to Khomeini himself after the referendum that instated the Islamic Republic in 1979, and after his death all sorts of power plays resulted in the election of Hojjatoleslam Khamenei, who was promoted to the rank of Ayatollah for the occassion.

Now, he might have been a controversial choice because he wasn't widely recognised as the most knowledgable jurist, but he was still a cleric with a lifetime of schooling behind him. Iran is ruled by the Supreme Leader, who is to guide the republic according to the laws of Islam. The supreme leader is elected by the Assembly of Experts, who are all learned clerics. It is based if nothing else on the one principle that Islamic law is the only form of justice. Tell me again how you defend the idea that an engineer, with no schooling in Islamic law, would be elected by an assembly of clerics who've spent their whole life studying that law, to Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran?

Angstrom
Posts: 14923
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Post by Angstrom » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:25 am

thelike5 wrote:Well aren't you the little fountain of knowledge!! :)
noisetonepause wrote: FYI: I am a fourth year student of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Copenhagen. I am one oral exam and a 20 page essay away from receiving a bachelor's degree in Iranian studies. I speak Persian, to some extent, and visited Iran this february.

... etc

heh heh

Image

Tone Deft
Posts: 24152
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:31 am

Image
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

landrvr1
Posts: 1761
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:24 am
Location: ...

Post by landrvr1 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:08 am

Supreme Leader. God I love that. It's got a lovely ring to it, no?

Supreme Leader.

supreme leader.

Supreme.

Leader.

SUPREME LEADER.

SuPrEmE LeAdEr.

Awesome. Any way you cut it, it's just awesome.

S u p r e m e L e a d e r.


As always, the International Herald Trib becomes an excellent source....
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/23/ ... 139300.php

When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was first elected president, he said that Iran had more important issues to worry about than how women dress. He even called for allowing women into soccer games, a revolutionary idea for revolutionary Iran.

Today, Iran is experiencing the most severe crackdown on social behavior and dress in years, and women are often barred from smoking in public, let alone from attending a public event in a stadium.


Allowing women into soccer games? The outrage of it all....

landrvr1
Posts: 1761
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:24 am
Location: ...

Post by landrvr1 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:10 am

Gotta say that the Supreme Leader has a pretty bitchin' website.

The graphics are kick ass....

http://www.leader.ir/

Well, done, El Supremo!

...

noisetonepause
Posts: 4938
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
Location: Sticks and stones

Post by noisetonepause » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:28 am

landrvr1 wrote:Today, Iran is experiencing the most severe crackdown on social behavior and dress in years, and women are often barred from smoking in public, let alone from attending a public event in a stadium.
Err. The soccer thing is true, but Iranian smoking laws are quite harsh. Women are banned from smoking in a lot of public places because everyone is. I've never heard of cracking down on women in particular.

mauve
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by mauve » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:32 am

from the Supreme Leaders site:
"Women.
Blessed by the Revolution, the Iranian woman has been set in the right path"

landrvr1
Posts: 1761
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:24 am
Location: ...

Post by landrvr1 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:40 am

Supreme Leader. Still love it.

Hmm. Lest we forget about who it is we are actually talking about, and what he stands for, let's take a little trip down The Issues Lane shall we?

Khamenei's Views on...

Women
Blessed by the Revolution, the Iranian woman has been set in the right path.
All righty then. So far so good.

Today, the Iranian woman can enter the field of science and climb the science ladder...
Cool, cool. Nice. Lots of opportunities here.

...while preserving the religion, chastity, piety, dignity, grace, personality and reverence of a typical Muslim woman.
Uh oh, I smell trouble.

A woman might also embark on the field of religious sciences and information without any obstacles.
Okay, okay. Must have been a slight bump in the road because we seem to be back on track.

Today a woman in our country is able to participate in different activities including politics, social and jihadi activities,
Nice, I like it.

...helping people and the Revolution and appear in different fields while preserving her grace, dignity and Islamic hijab.
Hmm. Hijab. Hmm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that thongs at the sand volleyball matches are going to be out of the question? Anyway....

Women are naturally responsible for the greatest works of creation.
NOW you're starting to make some sense. VERY enlightened.

Those who were physically strong were present in fighting, with a sword as a soldier. Of course, this has not been made mandatory for women by Islam because it does not correspond to their physical nature and emotions.
Ouch. Don't let Gloria Steinem hear that...


...

landrvr1
Posts: 1761
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:24 am
Location: ...

Post by landrvr1 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:58 am

...


Homos in Iran? Not on your life. Or theirs, for that matter.


Image


Ouch.


Image


LOL. Not funny and funny at the same time. Weird!


My vote for coolest website of the week is Homan: The Iranian Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Organization website. It's actually a great source of interesting articles about what's doin' these days in Iran. Fascinating reading.

http://www.homanla.org/index.htm


The sense you get from reading the articles and such is just what enlightened people say all the time: Iran's citizens are level-headed and progressive; wanting more freedoms and a voice. It's the leadership that keeps raining on the parade.

...

landrvr1
Posts: 1761
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:24 am
Location: ...

Post by landrvr1 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:02 am

noisetonepause wrote:
landrvr1 wrote:Today, Iran is experiencing the most severe crackdown on social behavior and dress in years, and women are often barred from smoking in public, let alone from attending a public event in a stadium.
Err. The soccer thing is true, but Iranian smoking laws are quite harsh. Women are banned from smoking in a lot of public places because everyone is. I've never heard of cracking down on women in particular.

Hey noise, have you seen Persepolis? Thoughts?


...

Machinesworking
Posts: 11421
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:17 am

Just wanted to add. We did in fact make the first threat of attack. GWB and co. after 'securing' Iraq literally said Iran was next. (It's my opinion that this is what led to the current fundamentalist swing. The president at that time was much more lenient and more tolerant towards the west etc.) I think the only reason we didn't is because we simply couldn't at the time, dunno?
Beyond that, the CIA put the Sha into "Supreme Leader" position in the first place, eventually causing a fundamentalist backlash, and Kohmeni rising to power.
If there's any country on the planet, by any rational view we should leave the fuck alone, it would be Iran. Has ZERO to do with how fucked up they are, there are Plenty of fucked up countries out there, even ones with nuclear arsenals, that we could attempt to 'clean up' without being seen as total assholes. This country is not one of them.
You cannot stage a military coup in a sovereign nation usurping a democratically elected leader, only to instal a paranoid tyrant, and then years later try to write off your current "concerns" as being about the welfare of the people. It just looks really bad.

landrvr1
Posts: 1761
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:24 am
Location: ...

Post by landrvr1 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:40 am

Not to mention it's just bad form to attack the one Nation in the Middle East in which the people are - if not a friend of the West - then certainly the most open minded and interested in more freedom. Freedom that shouldn't have to come from the point of a gun, anyway.

And if we're going to take a history lesson this evening, let's look back a bit further. The first salvo was fired by - you guessed it - the British. The Island Monkeys were raping the country of it's new resource (oil), installing puppet leaders, and beating down the people looooooong before the the US even knew where exactly the fucking place was.

You can give me an example of any kind of US shenanigans, and I'll easily give you 5 or more examples of how the Island Monkeys and/or Europeans did it first, and did it better (or worse, depending on how you look at it...).

I would also be remiss if I didn't mention that douchebag Jimmy Carter. It's amazing how he's somehow held up as the grandfather of progressive thought, and a friend of Palestine, when he couldn't lick the balls of the Shah hard enough or fast enough....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sux4XlNtSRw


my god.


...

pepezabala
Posts: 3501
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: In Berlin, finally

Re: "Our finger is on the trigger"

Post by pepezabala » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:41 am

thelike5 wrote: Iran and the USA are like the two biggest assholes that bump into each other and have to immediately have to who can yell the loudest. I honestly think the whole thing is funny but won't be when missles start flying.
Best comment so far.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11421
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:57 am

landrvr1 wrote: You can give me an example of any kind of US shenanigans, and I'll easily give you 5 or more examples of how the Island Monkeys and/or Europeans did it first, and did it better (or worse, depending on how you look at it...).
True of course, it's people, not "americans", people are fucking bullies when they get power, but as of this moment we're the biggest kid on the block, and times are more progressive, all kinds of civil rights movements have happened, and colonial thinking, while still in full effect, isn't looked upon the same way. Hell, our staunchest allies in the Iraq BS is the UK, and England helped us put the sha in power in the first place.
Most of us here in the states are decedents of europeans, it's no wonder europeans did it first. What I fear is that within the last 20+ years or so, really since WWII, it seems to me the europeans have had a better world view than we here in the states have. I agree that before then it was miserable, but now I would say that their system of checks and balances against an aggressive assraping of whatever little political threat or tasty piece of land is a lot better than ours.
That said, it does surprise me how little europeans in general talk about their own governments involvement in our little deals. Since most of their leaders seem to be all kissy kissy with us anymore?

I mean where are government sanctions against the US for violating Un resolutions etc.?? One of the advantages of being an economic powerhouse I guess?

noisetonepause
Posts: 4938
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
Location: Sticks and stones

Post by noisetonepause » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:21 am

landrvr1 wrote:Hey noise, have you seen Persepolis? Thoughts?
I didn't get the chance, no.

Post Reply