[Music Theory] Chord Substitutions

[ethios4]

I've been getting back into guitar lately and recently learned some neat stuff about chord substitutions. I was always intimidated by the subject, but now I see that it is simpler than I thought.

Chord substitution is another way to look at extended harmonies, more or less.

Let's look at how standard triad chords are formed. A standard triad is formed on the 1st, 3rd, and fifth scale degrees. So, here's the C Major scale, with the scale degrees of a C Major triad in bold.

C__D__E__F__G__A__B
1__2__3__4__5__6__7 = C-E-G = C Major triad

If you extend this concept of using every other scale degree into the next octave, you get extended harmonies.

C__D__E__F__G__A__B__C__D__E__F__G__A__B
1__2__3__4__5__6__7__8__9__10_11_12_13_14 = C-E-G-B-D-F-A = Cmaj13 chord

It is interesting to note that you can end up using every single note of a diatonic scale at once through the use of extended harmonies.

The chord substitution way of look at this is to see the 7 note Cmaj13 chord as a combination of simpler chords. For example, the Cmaj13 chord is a Cmaj7 chord (C-E-G-B) plus a Dm chord (D-F-A). Therefore, if one instrument is playing the Cmaj7 chord, another instrument can play the Dm chord over the top and it will work.

Now, this isn't to say that you can just play any chord over any other diatonic chord and it will sound good. The rules of musical logic still apply, and so the context must be appropriate and the orchestration must be appropriate. For example, if you play the Dm chord under the Cmaj7, your ear will probably hear it as a Dm13 instead. Also, if you haven't used any weird chord juxtapositions in a song, and then suddenly bust out a Cmaj7/Dm chord it might sound out of place and overly dissonant.

This technique has helped me a lot...I now understand how to achieve interesting chord structure much more quickly...instead of having to think about how to make and voice a complex chord for C Major, I can look at it as combinations of simpler chords...9th chords are a breeze...just play a major triad starting on the 5th scale degree for a major 7, or play a minor triad starting on the 5th for a minor 7....Gm over C = Cmaj9.

This is just the beginning of the subject of chord substitution. From this starting point there are many areas to take this idea, but hopefully this will help to de-mystify an intimidating topic!

[Tone Deft]

I refer to that as 'scale harmonization.'

make up a scale, take every other note, play the chord.

[duluxdog]

I really want to understand this. When it comes down to it, though, i'm not concerned over whether or not something is theoretically 'correct'. I have a serious love for dissonance and bizarre progressions. So what i'm trying to say is that i'd like to know the rules so I can realise the best ways to break them. I'll read into this in further detail tomorrow.

[Tone Deft]

that's still following the rules.

everytime a n00b comes across posts like this they always have to post that same remark.

these aren't rules, they're generalizations describing what people have been doing for hundreds of years.

ignorance is not bliss. don't mistake rebellion for cleverness.

[ethios4]

I don't see any music theory as rules. Music comes first, theory happens afterward. This approach helps me to understand why accidentally playing the wrong chord sometimes sounds good, and sometimes not. I now way do I think music theory dictates what sounds good....if it sounds good, it is good - people can try and figure out why later.

In the band I'm in now, I had to record a guitar part for a song they had already recorded everything else for. In the middle is a crazy jam in F#m, with the rhodes and bass going crazy Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey style. A month ago I would have been totally lost, but using chord substitutions I was able to layer in very nice colorations and tensions by using F#m, A, B7, and C#m chords...using my ear as the guide, of course.

[Nogi]

C-E-G-B-D-F-A = C13 chord

Just to avoid confusion, should probably write that as Cmaj13 to differentiate from the dominant variety.

[ethios4]

C-E-G-B-D-F-A = C13 chord

Just to avoid confusion, should probably write that as Cmaj13 to differentiate from the dominant variety.

Oops, missed that one. Thanks!

[Homebelly]

I refer to that as 'scale harmonization.'

make up a scale, take every other note, play the chord.

Next step after this is to take every third note..
The world of quartal harmony is wide open..

I also love using open and closed voicing..
Most guitar chords are open voiced,, they span two octaves..
Piano chords can often be closed voicing in that they can all be contained in the same octave.. because of how the harmonics work on a guitar you can build up some very cool dissonance using closed voicing,, however you often need long fingers and big hands to get more that two or three voices in a chord..

I love all the tricks of harmony..
Voice leading is another great and untapped area for most guitar players..
I had my mind truly blown watching Mike Stern one night play the most beautiful improvisation just by changing the upper voices of the chord progression...
Not a Joe Pass type chord harmony.. more like some kind of Bach inspired trip...

[Noel]

When I saw the thread title I thought it would be about substitute dominants which is another interesting trick for creating chromatic harmony and passing notes.

Instead of a V7 -> I progression you can substitute IIb7 -> 1.

e.g. instead of G7 - > C you would have Db7 - > C. It works because the characteristic sound of a dominant 7th is created by the tension between the 3rd and the 7th. In the G7 -> C example the 3rd is B and the 7th is F. Substitute the Db7 and you still have a B and an F. Their rolls in the chord are reversed but the tension is still resolved by the C chord.

I refer to that as 'scale harmonization.'

make up a scale, take every other note, play the chord.

Next step after this is to take every third note..
The world of quartal harmony is wide open..

+1 - You beat me to it.

!!! *Do* try this at home !!!

I also love using open and closed voicing..
Most guitar chords are open voiced,, they span two octaves..
Piano chords can often be closed voicing in that they can all be contained in the same octave.. because of how the harmonics work on a guitar you can build up some very cool dissonance using closed voicing,, however you often need long fingers and big hands to get more that two or three voices in a chord..

I love using really dense closed-in chords on keybaords especially when really "going for it" on a nice dirty, overdriven fender rhodes patch. like playing a Dm9 as ''D 'F CDEFA

I love all the tricks of harmony..
Voice leading is another great and untapped area for most guitar players..
I had my mind truly blown watching Mike Stern one night play the most beautiful improvisation just by changing the upper voices of the chord progression...
Not a Joe Pass type chord harmony.. more like some kind of Bach inspired trip...

This is something I need to study, thanks for the heads up.

P.S.

Music has no Rules but it does have Laws. The laws dictate that certain combinations of notes will sound harmonious and others won't, that certain tensions can be resolved by a particular harmonic movement, etc, etc, etc, ...

It's all about understanding the properties of your raw material. A Musician needs to understand these laws in the same way that a painter has to understand the laws of paint and canvas.

Far from being restrictive, knowing these things actually frees your creativity.

[andydes]

Good stuff guys. Every time I read a thread like this, it makes me want to go home and write something a bit more musically involved than the beats, bleeps, bells, whistles and monkey noises I usually do.

I used to think I was breaking the rules by making all sorts of wild and wacky chords on the guitar. I wasn't, I just didn't know enough of the rules to realise they'd all been done before.

Yeah, the rules are good. I should reacquaint myself with them some more.

[duluxdog]

that's still following the rules.

everytime a n00b comes across posts like this they always have to post that same remark.

these aren't rules, they're generalizations describing what people have been doing for hundreds of years.

ignorance is not bliss. don't mistake rebellion for cleverness.

Don't be a fucking spazz.

How do you account for the genius of bands like Throbbing Gristle or Whitehouse or Mars or DNA who literally based their music on their total ignorance and ineptitude of established norms? Sometimes it needs a maverick to say 'burn the museums'.

[ethios4]

How do you account for the genius of bands like Throbbing Gristle or Whitehouse or Mars or DNA who literally based their music on their total ignorance and ineptitude of established norms?

They used their ears...music comes before theory. I'm sure there are reasons why that music worked....if someone figures out a way to explain it, that explanation becomes music theory.

The only way to avoid music theory is to never remember anything you have ever wrote, played, or heard. Otherwise, you will be influenced in one way or another by 'rules', even if they are your own.

[Tone Deft]

that's still following the rules.

everytime a n00b comes across posts like this they always have to post that same remark.

these aren't rules, they're generalizations describing what people have been doing for hundreds of years.

ignorance is not bliss. don't mistake rebellion for cleverness.

Don't be a fucking spazz.

How do you account for the genius of bands like Throbbing Gristle or Whitehouse or Mars or DNA who literally based their music on their total ignorance and ineptitude of established norms? Sometimes it needs a maverick to say 'burn the museums'.

maverick? lmfao get over yourself.

for years on different forums from DAWs to guitar I've read the same exact posts from "clever people like you" (no need for me to get personal, sorry, just using you as an example). they think it's clever but it's just laziness IMO, "I won't learn that but I'll do better because of it. fuck your institutions." there's very little to learn from that line of thinking, it's a false sense of accomplishment.

which one of us is the spazz?? the one talking about the topic or the one jumping up and down refuting that which they don't know?

how did those bands get by? use your ears. you do not know how much theory those band members knew or used, you're talking out your ass (OK I'm not doing a very good job of not getting personal.)

then there's the old Miles Davis saying "learn all the theory you can, forget it and play."

[Machinesworking]

that's still following the rules.

everytime a n00b comes across posts like this they always have to post that same remark.

these aren't rules, they're generalizations describing what people have been doing for hundreds of years.

ignorance is not bliss. don't mistake rebellion for cleverness.

Don't be a fucking spazz.

How do you account for the genius of bands like Throbbing Gristle or Whitehouse or Mars or DNA who literally based their music on their total ignorance and ineptitude of established norms? Sometimes it needs a maverick to say 'burn the museums'.

maverick? lmfao get over yourself.

for years on different forums from DAWs to guitar I've read the same exact posts from "clever people like you" (no need for me to get personal, sorry, just using you as an example). they think it's clever but it's just laziness IMO, "I won't learn that but I'll do better because of it. fuck your institutions." there's very little to learn from that line of thinking, it's a false sense of accomplishment.

which one of us is the spazz?? the one talking about the topic or the one jumping up and down refuting that which they don't know?

how did those bands get by? use your ears. you do not know how much theory those band members knew or used, you're talking out your ass (OK I'm not doing a very good job of not getting personal.)

then there's the old Miles Davis saying "learn all the theory you can, forget it and play."

Best example I can think of is King Krimson, 80's version. Robert Fripp is a theory spouting maniac, read pretty much any interview with him. Adrian Belew knows no theory. You can hear it in their playing, but basically they're both on the list as far as greatest guitar players etc..
All I'm saying here is theory is good and it opens doors for some people, it's not necessary though. I just remember all these horrible, but technically trained guitar players, and almost every one would tell me they were a Guitar Instatute of Technology graduate.
Anyway I agree with ethois on this, all theory is is a language to explain music, and in fact that's all I ever use it for, to explain to another musician what I just did. Shit I rarely recognize the key I'm playing in until the song is almost done.

[Emissary]

Don't be a fucking spazz.

How do you account for the genius of bands like Throbbing Gristle or Whitehouse or Mars or DNA who literally based their music on their total ignorance and ineptitude of established norms? Sometimes it needs a maverick to say 'burn the museums'.

maverick? lmfao get over yourself.

for years on different forums from DAWs to guitar I've read the same exact posts from "clever people like you" (no need for me to get personal, sorry, just using you as an example). they think it's clever but it's just laziness IMO, "I won't learn that but I'll do better because of it. fuck your institutions." there's very little to learn from that line of thinking, it's a false sense of accomplishment.

which one of us is the spazz?? the one talking about the topic or the one jumping up and down refuting that which they don't know?

how did those bands get by? use your ears. you do not know how much theory those band members knew or used, you're talking out your ass (OK I'm not doing a very good job of not getting personal.)

then there's the old Miles Davis saying "learn all the theory you can, forget it and play."

Best example I can think of is King Krimson, 80's version. Robert Fripp is a theory spouting maniac, read pretty much any interview with him. Adrian Belew knows no theory. You can hear it in their playing, but basically they're both on the list as far as greatest guitar players etc..
All I'm saying here is theory is good and it opens doors for some people, it's not necessary though. I just remember all these horrible, but technically trained guitar players, and almost every one would tell me they were a Guitar Instatute of Technology graduate.
Anyway I agree with ethois on this, all theory is is a language to explain music, and in fact that's all I ever use it for, to explain to another musician what I just did. Shit I rarely recognize the key I'm playing in until the song is almost done.

hehe me too, i HATE music theory with a passion, but i seem to have built up some weird knowledge in my head about where things go and how without ever reading a book about it. Some people need to know they are following the rules correctly and others need to wank on a stick and stick it in a plug socket, doesnt mean one is better than the other. But being an expert at music theory does not equate being a good composer of music. In Uni everyone could read theory very well except me and i came top of the class. wanks to them,