Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Machinesworking
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:01 am

hurlingdervish wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:Ouside of layering the major drawback to drum racks is how clunky it is to preview different sounds in a kit.
its dead simple...click on the sample in the browser, or play it on the pads to hear it

how could it get any easier
For in kit preview you have to load the simpler.. in the browser it's not playing the drum pattern. Neither of these are half as quick as up/down arrows in GURU and Batterys browsers, both load lightening fast. Honestly this just highlights Live's major faux pass, which was changing the preview to this clunky method they have now. I really can't think of a less elegant preview model. I love Live, but I'm not going to mince words when other plug in and DAW manufacturers are doing something in a more ergonomic user interface fashion than Ableton does.

SubFunk
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by SubFunk » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:07 am

Machinesworking wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:Ouside of layering the major drawback to drum racks is how clunky it is to preview different sounds in a kit.
its dead simple...click on the sample in the browser, or play it on the pads to hear it

how could it get any easier
For in kit preview you have to load the simpler.. in the browser it's not playing the drum pattern. Neither of these are half as quick as up/down arrows in GURU and Batterys browsers, both load lightening fast. Honestly this just highlights Live's major faux pass, which was changing the preview to this clunky method they have now. I really can't think of a less elegant preview model. I love Live, but I'm not going to mince words when other plug in and DAW manufacturers are doing something in a more ergonomic user interface fashion than Ableton does.
+1, i only recently are in need of using the preview function a lot... oh my, oh my it is sooo sloooooow... and highly annoying is as well how long it takes to come up with samples in the browser when you press the file swap button on let's say impulse... jeeez, it's not real... and when i work at home in the studio i even have my library on an external 7200rpm eSATA drive, could not be any faster then that and yet still it takes ages...

it is so bad that it hits the edge of my tolerance.

please ableton sort out 8, please please, please. it is supposed to be lighting fast and dead stable live tool not a slow and blown DAW.
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Machinesworking
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:17 pm

SubFunk wrote: +1, i only recently are in need of using the preview function a lot... oh my, oh my it is sooo sloooooow... and highly annoying is as well how long it takes to come up with samples in the browser when you press the file swap button on let's say impulse... jeeez, it's not real... and when i work at home in the studio i even have my library on an external 7200rpm eSATA drive, could not be any faster then that and yet still it takes ages...

it is so bad that it hits the edge of my tolerance.

please ableton sort out 8, please please, please. it is supposed to be lighting fast and dead stable live tool not a slow and blown DAW.
The only reason I can see for it is that it give live a 'buffer' to load the sample without glitching the audio playing. Basically I think they switch to this slower preset, sample, audio file browsing technique for safety reasons. Much like most soft synth manufacturers not offering the hardware bank, program change standard for their soft synths. Urs Heckman stated that what with a complex beast like Zebra, it's possible to crash the host when changing presets on the fly like that. He implemented it, but it's a user definable 128 presets, not banks and it's not set up. I think this is to scare away people with slow or badly tuned PCs etc.
I'm just guessing here, but if a soft synth developer is leery of it, I can see why Ableton might be. On the other hand, Logic with the EXS24 is lightening fast, it's not program changes, but a hot key can be set up to advance to the next instrument etc. at program change speed.

jlgrimes
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:42 am

Machinesworking wrote:
SubFunk wrote: +1, i only recently are in need of using the preview function a lot... oh my, oh my it is sooo sloooooow... and highly annoying is as well how long it takes to come up with samples in the browser when you press the file swap button on let's say impulse... jeeez, it's not real... and when i work at home in the studio i even have my library on an external 7200rpm eSATA drive, could not be any faster then that and yet still it takes ages...

it is so bad that it hits the edge of my tolerance.

please ableton sort out 8, please please, please. it is supposed to be lighting fast and dead stable live tool not a slow and blown DAW.
The only reason I can see for it is that it give live a 'buffer' to load the sample without glitching the audio playing. Basically I think they switch to this slower preset, sample, audio file browsing technique for safety reasons. Much like most soft synth manufacturers not offering the hardware bank, program change standard for their soft synths. Urs Heckman stated that what with a complex beast like Zebra, it's possible to crash the host when changing presets on the fly like that. He implemented it, but it's a user definable 128 presets, not banks and it's not set up. I think this is to scare away people with slow or badly tuned PCs etc.
I'm just guessing here, but if a soft synth developer is leery of it, I can see why Ableton might be. On the other hand, Logic with the EXS24 is lightening fast, it's not program changes, but a hot key can be set up to advance to the next instrument etc. at program change speed.

The only big problem I have with Live's browser is that it is always linked to the global quantize setting. If you turn global quantize off, Live preview the wave file instantly.

I think Live Browser beats Sonar's loop explorer view.

There is room for improvement though (more customization).


It is probably more preference though but I dig the Drum Rack's interface stuff waaaay better than Battery. For quick and painless sampling the only thing I think that will compete with a drum rack is a real drum sampler and even that is debatable. Live's Simpler is much easier for quickly editing wavefiles, One feature really does it for me the zooming feature. Battery's zooming is much more clunkier than Live's.

But the drum racks could use improvment though. Scrolling through the pads with the arrow keys would be a nice feature.

Battery does have articulations, but drum racks can do something similar with Midi effects.

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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by v00d00ppl » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:10 am

so does battery 3 have a better recorded studio drum set than session drums?
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Bynar
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by Bynar » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:18 am

Battery was the first and last Native Instruments product I will own. I had nothing but headaches with Battery 3. The sound library was great, but creating your own drum kits was another thing. I find most of NI's products to be way too bloated. That's my 2 cents anyways. 1 vote for drum racks!
A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules, often with the assistance of unsuspecting musicians. - Frank Zappa

Machinesworking
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:27 am

Bynar wrote:Battery was the first and last Native Instruments product I will own. I had nothing but headaches with Battery 3. The sound library was great, but creating your own drum kits was another thing. I find most of NI's products to be way too bloated. That's my 2 cents anyways. 1 vote for drum racks!
Honestly have no idea how people can have issues with the interface in Battery? it's super straightforward IMO. I read your post and expected you to mention some bugginess in the plug in itself that seems resolved in the latest beta.

I guess my experience with racks is different, I love the all in one nature of them and the super quick ability to route FX etc. but I can't really say I like the browser, as in kit preview is slooow! tabs are cool, but... Also, is it still that control surfaces see only the first Simpler or can you see all components as separate tracks in Mackie Control, Remote SL etc? I can answer this in a little bit but....

Gluon
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by Gluon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:03 pm

I just have drum rack driving battery using the "External Instrument" on each pad - best of both worlds !

bosonHavoc
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by bosonHavoc » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:26 pm

Gluon wrote:I just have drum rack driving battery using the "External Instrument" on each pad - best of both worlds !
i do too :)

and i have a generic preloaded premapped drum rack up for download.

http://luxdivon.com/ableton.html

i just updated too (it had a routing error that i fixed)

H20nly
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Re: Has drum rack caught up with battery?

Post by H20nly » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:41 pm

^ nice

so are the jams so far...

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