On Palins speech....

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deva
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Post by deva » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:34 am

Tone Deft wrote:I disagree with your post MW.
Machinesworking wrote:why is she on the ticket? geez, that's last week's news. so McCain can get the undecided vote, the people who want a woman on the ticket, the pissed off Democrats who wanted Hillary. she was picked because she's a woman, probably also because she wants to drill Alaska, there's not much else to her. Hillary created a certain niche of voters, with her gone that niche needs a home, simple as that.
Hillary isn't a redneck, and she's not a rabid born again. I think you're missing out on the point of McCain getting a solid % of the christian fundamentalist vote, plus the dumber rednecks are almost a guarantee. The west coast variety won't buy into her schtick maybe, but the midwest swing states just got tougher.
I seriously don't think republicans would win much elections if they hadn't shanghaied the average IQ christian blue color reactionary vote.
she was not picked because of religion. a solid percentage of the fundamentalist vote? that's easy, he's staunch pro-life, done deal. religion has nothing to do with Palin as a pick. do you think the fundies are going to vote pro choice Democrat? this isn't an issue.[/quote]


Religion is one big reason why she was picked. The Fundies were not throwing their support and effort behind McCain. They have been suspicious and standing off. Plenty of fundis will not vote, or vote a fringe candidate etc

Palin is changing that.

TITBAG
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Post by TITBAG » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:43 pm

Walnuts will have that lortabbing cougar gobbling his montecristo before you can say Lewinsky Shitpipe Implosion

j2j
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Post by j2j » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:54 pm

too many lasers...

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:15 pm

Pitch Black wrote:In the 1940s, Psychologist Gustav Gilbert was assigned by the US Army to study the minds and motivations of the Nazi defendants at the Nuremberg trials. There is a famous quote from him:

"Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”
A friend of mine said the other day "Empathy is the root of morality". It may have been a quote from somewhere else, but it sure stuck with me as being true.

Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:33 pm


Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:49 pm

...

the ar
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Post by the ar » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:12 pm

Short-term, this may have been tactically brilliant in that it took attention from Obama's speech and the democratic convention, got everyone buzzing about this mystery hockey mom governor from Alaska.
It also superficially reinforced his "Maverick" image, and excited the fundie base.
BUT once the initial 'pr' value fades, and people start looking and finding out more about her, and at his decision to choose her, it's going to backfire.
It'll make him look superficial, petty and calculating, definitely not ready for presidential prime time.
Sure, "Teh Stoopids" will fall for it, but they always fall for it, and there are fewer of them this time around.
Public relations and stunts will not win this election for McPhony.
This said, I don't like Obama either.
WTF?!

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:50 pm

deva wrote: When the US backed coup attempt to overthrow Chavez in Venezuela was happening, 1 million Venezuelans surrounded the presidential palace. Carrying a gun is common in Venezuela. I've read that it is 1 in 4. That means there were 250,000 guns demanding that they get their president back.

They got their president back.

Protection against an increasingly domineering government is a good reason to have a gun(s).
The coup attempt against Chavez was realized when the palace guards decided to join in, and turned on the 'new' government, arresting them and effectively ending the coup. Basically if you don't have at least a portion of the military on your side in any revolution, you're fucked, hunting rifles and handguns aside.

I'm not anti right to bear arms, but look at the Beslan hostage massacre in Russia.
Beyond the fact that the chechnyian rebels were evil pukes, what really set it off was that the fathers were all armed, and stormed the school as soon as they heard gunfire. There wasn't enough military and police there to stop them at that point, and unfortunately it turned out the gunfire was the chechnyians shooting each other.

Anyway, my point is the right to bear arms is not a black and white issue by any means, and has no significance in debates about presidential candidates. The USA senate, congress, and supreme court is not going to be swayed into changing gun laws to any noticeable degree by any president IMO, it's bullshit that has nothing to do with issues a change of party can affect.

Who are the lobbyists behind McCain and Obama? Who are their advisers? Those are questions we should be asking, and what we should worry about.

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:14 pm

MW - www.google.com <--- interesting site, helps you find answers really easily. random tangents about gun control, weird, try to stay focused.
:P
Not only does the McCain campaign have more current and former lobbyist bundlers than any other candidate, but McCain has more current and former lobbyists working on his campaign staff than any other candidate in the 2008 presidential election.
http://mediamattersaction.org/freeride/lobbyists/ <--- McCain's staff who are lobbyists.


it's being said more and more about Palin's religion. when I first posted about that (right after her nomination) it wasn't being talked about, it was her filling the vagina gap Hillary left. there are plenty of religious kooks to pick, few without a penis. people were skeptical at first, but as of today they're whooping and hollering that she's the best thing since NASCAR. it's been interesting watching the evolution of the image.

what's really fucked up is that the 3 major news channels (Fox, MSNBC and CNN) are giving 99% of their election airtime to McCain and Palin, literally. millions of TV sets in airports, hotels, casinos, bars and restaurants are getting spammed with their images with 2 months left to go. a lot of what those two are saying is bullshit and isn't be refuted. they're using the 'change' taglines and going negative against Obama and the democrats.


what's even more fucked up is that even from this forum it's really obvious that most people base their positions on image, whether it's j2j not being able to say why he'd vote or the pseudos like MW who admit they don't know what's going on but have a stance anyway. shallow imagery of candidates is a big deal. so far Obama's kept the high road and has been keeping his mouth shut. McCain and Palin have gone negative and have made plenty of statements that are incorrect. hopefully the debates will clear all this up.

it's a toss up. let me apologize now to the rest of the world for American stupidity, we're still a young nation.

Image
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doc holiday
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Post by doc holiday » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:59 pm

Tone Deft wrote: what's really fucked up is that the 3 major news channels (Fox, MSNBC and CNN) are giving 99% of their election airtime to McCain and Palin, literally.

this is what I meant when I said the media turned around after the initial "liberal media" criticisms flying along with the "sexism in the media" comments.

once the "liberal media" card was dropped the media went full swing a started kissin' booty.

they created an image, from here on out is not John McCain and Sarah Palin, its Sarah Palin and her running mate John McCain.

the craziest spin ever, it may be hard for people to swallow.

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:58 pm

doc holiday wrote:
Tone Deft wrote: what's really fucked up is that the 3 major news channels (Fox, MSNBC and CNN) are giving 99% of their election airtime to McCain and Palin, literally.

this is what I meant when I said the media turned around after the initial "liberal media" criticisms flying along with the "sexism in the media" comments.

once the "liberal media" card was dropped the media went full swing a started kissin' booty.

they created an image, from here on out is not John McCain and Sarah Palin, its Sarah Palin and her running mate John McCain.

the craziest spin ever, it may be hard for people to swallow.
I'd interpret it more that they were waiting for the VP pick so that they could frame their response and come out all guns blazing

before the VP pick Obama was the story

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:58 pm

Tone Deft wrote: Image
:lol: :lol:

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:43 am

Tone Deft wrote:MW - www.google.com <--- interesting site, helps you find answers really easily. random tangents about gun control, weird, try to stay focused.
:P
I'm not talking to you specifically about gun control. Oddly enough you aren't the only one on the forum here. :P

As far as trying to school me about lobbyists, advisers, etc. I think you misinterpreted me, again. I simply stated that IMO it was much more important than all this nonsense about the personality of the candidates. Why you think that means I need to 'do research' to find out that both parties have them, and that I'm not that pleased with the foreign policy decisions of either candidate.... yeah that part bothers me.
Tone Deft wrote: what's even more fucked up is that even from this forum it's really obvious that most people base their positions on image, whether it's j2j not being able to say why he'd vote or the pseudos like MW who admit they don't know what's going on but have a stance anyway.
Where did you come up with that???? When did say anything like that?

If you're referring to me stating that lobbyists and political advisers are where our attention should be, wow? You obviously misread what I wrote big time.

AFA as the 'psuedo' jab, kiss my ass! I used to like your posts, but lately it's all internet tough guy BS. :roll:

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:37 am

dunno what to say, all your points are about you. if I were to respond it'd be more of the same, couldn't be good.

seems that you hate the US foreign policy, see that as the only difference between the two and aren't happy with either choice.

really just taking the piss on you and j2j. a large part of the election truly is the superficial impression that people get of the candidates, it plays huge. I started playing this 'show me the facts' game long before the Hillary and Obama debates even began. that was because there was very little difference between the two but people would still argue about it. now there's an extremely huge difference between the two candidates, and I play the same 'game.' in reality the facts aren't the whole picture, it's how well they say words like 'change', 'tax', and 'protect.'
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

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Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:29 am

Tone Deft wrote:dunno what to say, all your points are about you. if I were to respond it'd be more of the same, couldn't be good.
I agree, but you taking the piss on me as you admit in your next paragraph is exactly why I even brought it up. It seems that if you have an opinion that is neither conservative or liberal, (radical say), it confuses you.
As in....
seems that you hate the US foreign policy, see that as the only difference between the two and aren't happy with either choice.
and again, there you have it. How is it the only difference between the two to me when I've said again and again that they aren't any different at all that way?
really just taking the piss on you and j2j.

Don't bulk me in with others you disagree with. I believe the reason you don't agree with me is that I'm not a democrat, but I'm far left. You for whatever reason refuse to acknowledge that people can have an opinion outside of the two parties, or that it matters at all, which is your mistake and shortcoming, not mine. There's so reactionary element in my thinking, and as far as that's concerned, if the best you can do to come back to me with is to call me a 'pseudo', then leave it be. I don't in any way consider you to be stupid, or beneath me, at least what I know of your online personality anyway.....
a large part of the election truly is the superficial impression that people get of the candidates, it plays huge. I started playing this 'show me the facts' game long before the Hillary and Obama debates even began. that was because there was very little difference between the two but people would still argue about it. now there's an extremely huge difference between the two candidates, and I play the same 'game.' in reality the facts aren't the whole picture, it's how well they say words like 'change', 'tax', and 'protect.'
I'd love it if you could sell me on that, but I don't buy it. Like you I liver in a solid blue state, so unless it REALLY looks like Obama is going to lose WA, I'm voting third party. I think Obama is marginally better than McCain, but a lot of the key issues that I care about he's exactly the same on, foreign policy, death penalty (which IS an issue that has changed in my lifetime), and his constant bible thumping rhetoric, (Bill Clinton didn't come close on this one for instance), I'm not sure, but I'm willing to bet there's a "social" agenda in there that will rub me the wrong way as well, ala Tipper Gore/Leiberman (hope I'm wrong on that one) etc. etc.

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