On Palins speech....

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Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:11 pm

I'd prefer if you didn't address me like you were telling me something I don't know, considering, like, you know, I've been peddling this puppet-show shtick for years at this stage.
Public forum, you're the one who addressed your reply like a guess, my comment reflects that. I'm well aware that you go beyond the interwebs and soundbites for information on politics etc.
b0unce wrote:There's just no way either Obama or McCain are going to derail the U.S.A from it's current course. Certainly not in terms of foreign policy. You'll need radical change for that, so don't fool yourself with the HOPE bullshit, kids.
At this point you have to realize it's all about damage control here. Obama is in line with out current foreign policy for sure, but how in line? We can only hope that the money behind him isn't happy at all with Iraq. Reality is IMO that the neocons were a very greedy bunch, even for politicians, it doesn't seem to me they fed all the rich, only their small section. So there's a good chance that at least our #1 foreign policy tragedy will at least get some attention.
Another harsh reality IMO, people won't support radical change unless their bottom line is affected. The only time it was possible for real change in the states was during the depression, but we got a democrat in there that put some band aids in place, (FDR, who could be seen as bad in this light, not judging) and here we are.

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:13 pm

@hidden driveways
you 'win' by dividing the people, misappropriating their resources and installing a puppet government.

the usual.
spreader of butter

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:16 pm

Palin's stances:

- She believes that creationism should be taught in public schools
- disbelieves global warming
- she opposes gun control
- supports government control of women's wombs
- she opposes stem cell research
- approves "abstinence-only" programs
- tried to use taxpayers' millions for a state program to shoot wolves from the air
- didn't spend enough money to fix a state school system with the lowest high-school graduation rate in the nation
- she runs with a candidate who opposes the Fair Pay Act (for women)
- supports $500 million in subsidies for a natural gas pipeline across Alaska
- supports drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve

- foreign policy stances - clueless
- national health care ideas - clueless


on Obama and Palin's experience:
Obama has twenty years of experience as a leader, community organizer and constitutional scholar. He has Eleven years of experience in elective office. He spent eight years in the Illinois Senate, four years in the US senate, three years as a community organizer. He worked for a civil rights law firm specializing in neighborhood economic development, he taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago and has also worked as a financial analyst. He is also an accomplished author. He has served on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the Committee of Veterans Affairs, the Committee for Health, Education Labor and Pension and the Committee of Homeland Security and Governmental affairs. He has sponsored or co-sponsored 570 bills in the 109th and 110th Congress (15 of which have become LAW). He has introduced amendments to 50 bills (16 were of which were adopted by the Senate). These bills reveal the decency of his character: Energy Efficiency and Climate Change (25 bills); Health care (21 bills) and public health (20 bills); Consumer protection/labor (14 bills); The needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces (13 bills); Congressional Ethics and Accountability (12 bills); Foreign Policy (10 bills); Voting and Elections (9 bills); Education (7 bills); Hurricane Katrina Relief (6); The Environment (5 bills); Homeland Security (4 bills); Discrimination (4 bills)

Palin who has been a governor for less than 20 months, previously served as the major of a small town of 6,500, Wasilla, whose headline news samplings range from the winner of the local 79 pound cabbage contest to an altercation at the local intersection. She also served on the PTA. This is a person quoted to say, “I haven’t really focused on the war in Iraq…” or the classic, “I don’t know what a VP does.”


facts is facts, did I miss anything glaring?
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nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:18 pm

b0unce wrote:do you know why you're voting for obama yet ?
Yeah, because he was a community organizer, and I want him to help you out of poverty and drugs.






































I kid. I jest. I jab. Because I love. *hugs*
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Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:18 pm

b0unce wrote:btw...after 5+ years, what significance is there in the military leaving ?
seriously ? this is another flimsy mechanism I notice some are fixated by...

It's like celebrating thieves leaving the scene of the crime after a successful robbery, and voting for the getaway driver.
Missing the point 101.
Consider it like northern Ireland. Sure, England getting out would only be a parade and a few minor differences in government considering the legacy of separation and immigration that area has as a result of England, but it would still mean something, even if it doesn't "heal" Ireland as a whole.
I would love it if there was this huge influx of cash into the states because of Iraq, at least it would somehow "justify" it, but I think they even screwed that up. Chenny made some money, and a couple others, but that's about it.

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:20 pm

Tone Deft wrote: facts is facts, did I miss anything glaring?
Just a few things...

Half-truths and lies in Palin's dog-and-pony show...

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institutionand the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state — by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors.Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after theIowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right — change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington — throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

also: http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campa ... eality.php
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nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:23 pm

ChiDJ wrote: He has a cock and you don't. :roll:
You sure about that?

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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:24 pm

can you boil that down? most of the time people post essays and they're not worth reading. kinda like unlabeled youtubes.

think for yourself.
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nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:26 pm

Hidden Driveways wrote: Sorry Neb. We're hosed.
:(
:lol: :lol: :lol:

awesome! This is EXACTLY what I want to see. The meaner she is, the more she galvanizes the left. The more the gloves come off Joe. The worse she'll bleed. And once the bloodbath is over, Joe will be joined on stage with his army-of-awwwwwwwwwww

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Stick around, fellas, this party is just gettin' started.
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nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:27 pm

Tone Deft wrote:can you boil that down?
sure:

Sarah Paylin is a lying sack of shit...






































who I'd love to MILF.
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ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:29 pm

doc holiday wrote:imagine a very small town in oklahoma, far far from anything. with zero industry.

this is Sarah Palins experience. her experience is nowhere near the same.
to say they have similar experience is a deception.
I agree, but like Tone said, this is about impressions more than facts. Maybe the lines in the sand are already drawn, but for dumb undecided voters, this sort of thing matters. Palin has executive experience, whereas Obama has legislative experience....I expect that will be raised at some point. I'm not saying anything is a foregone conclusion at this point, but I get an (even more) uneasy feeling.

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:32 pm

^ Ethios, I totally agree that it was a brilliant decision on McCain. But consider his choices -

1. Lose because he has no base support, or
2. Pander to the base and hope for a hail mary.

Now he has the base. Good for him. Sadly for him, all we need is less than 1% of the right of center. The harder his new pet pitbull growls, the more the Pumas will run. The independents are not far behind.

McCain just lost, though by a smaller margin.
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ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:37 pm

nebulae wrote:FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right — change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington — throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."
Man this sort of thing chaps my ass!! The Republican myth that Republican politicians are against welfare and will reduce spending, when the fact is that Republicans tax and spend just as much as Democrats, except they spend on defense rather than building up our country or helping other nations. Corporate welfare is all good, just not social welfare...riiiiiiiiight. It's sickening to see poor dumb Republicans regurgitating this "Republicans want to put money back i my pocket" crap.

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:44 pm

ethios4 wrote:
nebulae wrote:FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right — change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington — throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."
Man this sort of thing chaps my ass!! The Republican myth that Republican politicians are against welfare and will reduce spending, when the fact is that Republicans tax and spend just as much as Democrats, except they spend on defense rather than building up our country or helping other nations. Corporate welfare is all good, just not social welfare...riiiiiiiiight. It's sickening to see poor dumb Republicans regurgitating this "Republicans want to put money back i my pocket" crap.
totally, and watching them clap about Obama raising taxes. he will, for people who make more than $250k a year, not the people who make less.



I don't get the positives people are feeling about Palin.

dysfunctional family, basically forcing this kid to marry his daughter (5 months and no wedding plans... c'mon...), poster child for why the abstinence programs fail. small town mayor who was dissing the VP job just 6 months ago.

she was obviously picked because of her vagina, I can't believe that the GOP doesn't have a more capable female in their entire party, Ann Coulter? she's smart, knows the issues, I don't know the GOP females but she can't be the best one in the country! it's an insult to women.
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ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:52 pm

It was purely a political ploy, not based on who would be the best VP. That alone should be a great example of poor leadership on McCain's part.

Furthermore, the prisoner of war issue they bring up...saying McCain never broke under pressure and betrayed his country...in fact he did break....according to wikipedia "Further injuries led to the beginning of a suicide attempt, which was stopped by guards. After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda 'confession'." I'm not saying he's a bad guy for breaking...hell, I wouldn't have lasted more than a few days probably....but if you're gonna say the guy never broke, it should at least be true.

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