Reveal your dirty production secrets...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
blakbeltjonez
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Post by blakbeltjonez » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:46 pm

SimonPHC wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:
Aequitas123 wrote:What benefit is there to using or mixing in Mono?
helps audience members with one ear..
I hear ya
even today, there are lots of times where PA systems are in mono, or weak signal FM radio is effectively mono (or even for someone streaming audio, if you're trying to save bandwidth). checking mixes in mono is still an important part of mixing if you want a mix to translate properly to the lowest common denominator systems. since you can't control what your music is played on, you usually need to figure it's going to be played on the worst playback system possible.

there's also a school of thought that if you work in mono, you'll work harder in the beginning to get things right without getting lazy about arrangement, levels, EQ, etc.... in practice it can be a pain, since you know that it could sound 100% *now* just by hitting a button on the console or turning off a plug-in. but it does make you work in a more disciplined way if you do it...me personally, i just mono the mix every now and then to make sure nothing's really wrong because i am too undiscipllined to do deal with hours of listening in mono.

having a strong center image is also important, sometimes doing a mono submix of drums, bass, and whatever other strong elements of the song you have and sneaking it underneath your stereo mix makes things seem more focused and solid.... as opposed to making things uber-stereo and a washed out mess. you don't even have to make it 100% mono, the Utility plug in goes from 0% (full mono) to 100% (full stereo, i think 200% is both sides out of phase) so you can cheat in the sides 25-50% if you just want to reign in your drum/bass/etc submix a bit without adding another submix in mono.

blakbeltjonez
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Post by blakbeltjonez » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:50 pm

levimoniz wrote:
roach808 wrote:
lunabass wrote:i was told this dirty little secret from another producer friend of mine...

dont spend all of your time on the ableton forum
its a great way to spend your time while your waiting for your tune to render.

Altho, I have found in the past that this works just as wel......
Image
Couldn't help but notice your Fatso there, roach. Nice nice choice man 8)
i coudn't help but notice the Sherman and SVC-350...

abort
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Post by abort » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:00 pm

anything is possible with a good thumping beat! :P

ollyb303
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Post by ollyb303 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:18 am

blakbeltjonez wrote:
levimoniz wrote:
roach808 wrote: its a great way to spend your time while your waiting for your tune to render.

Altho, I have found in the past that this works just as wel......
Image
Couldn't help but notice your Fatso there, roach. Nice nice choice man 8)
i coudn't help but notice the Sherman and SVC-350...
Is that Guinness? Mmmmmm, Guinness... Little too close to the Sherman for my liking, but mmmmmmmmmmmmm...
.:O:B:1:.
ob1techno.com

ciw
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Post by ciw » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:11 am

zakary wrote: - play your track to friends but don't tell them it's yours.
Also if you do say it's yours (maybe to a producer friend) keep talking about other stuff as it plays - takes the pressure off the listener - and is actually a more natural way to listen to a track.

logic_user99
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Post by logic_user99 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:41 am

Is there much decent ambient electronica mixed in mono? :?:
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pepezabala
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Post by pepezabala » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:01 pm

another trick for listening-augmentation: Put off the monitor (computer monitor, not audio, that is :lol: ) when listening.

spkey
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Post by spkey » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:33 pm

logic_user99 wrote:Is there much decent ambient electronica mixed in mono? :?:
I think you're missing the point. Nothing is mixed in mono! Some people just switch to mono to set the levels, EQ and make sure everything is right for radio or streaming before switching back to Stereo for panning and FX.

madhattared
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Post by madhattared » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:55 am

OPERATOR'S OSCILATOR 4 CAN DO THINGS THE OTHER THREE CANNOT.
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Homebelly
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Post by Homebelly » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:52 am

madhattared wrote:OPERATOR'S OSCILATOR 4 CAN DO THINGS THE OTHER THREE CANNOT.
I just discovered this about a week ago.. :wink:
Now every one will know.. :twisted: :twisted:
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roach808
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Post by roach808 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:58 am

ollyb303 wrote:
blakbeltjonez wrote:
levimoniz wrote: Couldn't help but notice your Fatso there, roach. Nice nice choice man 8)
i coudn't help but notice the Sherman and SVC-350...
Is that Guinness? Mmmmmm, Guinness... Little too close to the Sherman for my liking, but mmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Don't worry the Guinness didn't stay there very long for some odd reason, after I took the picture hehehe.

:wink:
roach- the other white meat
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lunabass
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Post by lunabass » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:22 am

roach808 wrote: Don't worry the Guinness didn't stay there very long for some odd reason, after I took the picture hehehe.

:wink:
actually seeing that has reminded me how long it's been since i've had a stout. couldn't get enough of the murphys stout when i was living in the UK. yummmm
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Dominik
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Post by Dominik » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:33 am

fuck off connections.
fuck off music industries.
make right schools,motherfuckers.
bring the swing BACK to THIS germans!

NativeOps
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Post by NativeOps » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:31 am

I've read quite a few good tips for recording and mixing/mastering among a few pointless posts also. Thanx for the useful posts.
The mono trick is an old one, and should always be used to see how the tracks sit in the mix after panning. Believe it or not, mono does get played a lot in strange places, cell phones, old TV's, AM radio, small boom boxes, etc. Occasionally a stereo system might only have one channel working. There's nothing worse than losing 50% or 100% of a track because you forgot to listen to the song in mono. It's also convenient to have a mono version of your song rendered just in-case.

Using a HPF on all non bass/kick drum tracks around 50-100hz keeps the bottom end clean.

Running an auxiliary track of the final mix with a LPF to convert any frequencies below 80hz to mono, while keeping everything above that specific frequency stereo using a HPF on the original, has also worked well.

Cutting anything below 30hz from the final mix is also ideal.

One nice little trick to add depth to a mono track such as vocal or even acoustic or electric and bass guitar is to use the ableton "simple delay" plugin. First, turn off the "link" button, set both channels to "time" not "sync", set one channel to 1.00 millisecond, then the other channel anywhere from 5-20 milliseconds, make sure the "feedback" is set to 0, and the "dry/wet" to 100%. It's too bad that the minimum setting is 1.00 millisecond, and not zero, but this is not really audible at all. Works wonder's on rhythm guitar tracks. The greater the difference between the left and right channels, the more depth you'll gain. But be careful, this effect conflicts with any type of mono mixing.

Another cool trick to use if you're a guitar/bass player and own a foot FX board with MIDI control and amp modeling is, to run the guitar/bass into your audio interface after maybe using a tube pre-amp (if you have one) to record a dry signal without monitoring the sound, then run the audio of the channel back out a mono D/A port from the audio interface, then into the foot FX board, then back in to the audio interface which is usually stereo after using the FX board, and then monitor the stereo feed on a new track which will do nothing but receive and monitor audio from your foot FX board. Last, you will need to run a parallel midi track next to your initial dry recording which will record and transmit MIDI data and preset changes on the fly. This way, the guitar track will always be recorded dry, and processing can always be tweaked post performance, even wah wah will still work. Some times you record a badass riff, but maybe there was too much reverb. This way you can always go back and finesse the sound. Plus, you also have the capability to instantly send any other signal through the foot FX board if it's not already being used by the guitar. I've noticed that running all my synth tracks, whether bass, lead or rhythm through an amp modeling FX board can really beef up the sound tremendously.
This technique is also very useful live, since Ableton has the capability to load dummy clips, there's no need to search for the preset you want while playing, just hit next scene in Ableton and the preset changes are automatically sent for you. I know some foot FX boards don't have amp modeling, but I currently use the VOX Tonelab and it's doing a hell of a job. Don't forget to move your midi clips along with your audio clips. A "group" function for dragging multiple clips in the arrangement view would be a very useful feature that Ableton does not yet have.

Never record with compression, unless it's only there to very seldom stop clipping or give the quiet parts a little bit of gain if you're recording in 16bit 44.1Khz, which I always use. If you're recording in 24bit, or anything higher, you have leeway with the quieter sounds since you have more slices/characters to define the sound, you don't need to have such a hot signal.

Can't think of too many other's now, I'll check this thread again later to post more. Other than that, having a few extra hard drives in your computer makes a huge difference when using ableton. One HD for the system and applications, one for recording: mics, guitars, and keeping the Ableton Live Sets audio on, and maybe a third one if intensive sampling is used by software that utilizes DFD streaming. Oh yeah, LOT'S OF RAM TOO.

One more thang, smoke good, and drink good, cuz low grade make you stupid.
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Those who know, don't speak.
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pepezabala
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Post by pepezabala » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:29 am

NativeOps wrote:One nice little trick to add depth to a mono track such as vocal or even acoustic or electric and bass guitar is to use the ableton "simple delay" plugin. First, turn off the "link" button, set both channels to "time" not "sync", set one channel to 1.00 millisecond, then the other channel anywhere from 5-20 milliseconds, make sure the "feedback" is set to 0, and the "dry/wet" to 100%. It's too bad that the minimum setting is 1.00 millisecond, and not zero, but this is not really audible at all.
you can do a workaround with a rack which has one empty chain for the right channel, and another chain for the left channel. But then again, who cares about a 1 millisecond shift of the rendered track ...

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