new MacBook and MacBook Pro on Tuesday, October 14th

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:38 pm

ground_control wrote:
noisetonepause wrote:
ground_control wrote:The FW thing sucks, for sure, but I'm also kind of bummed about the touchpad and being forced into using tap-to-click, which I've always despised.
It's not tap-to-click, the new trackpad is an actual button. I think it might even be like a Mighty Mouse, where no buttons = 2 buttons...
Really, so it has a click? Where'd you see that out of curiousity?
apple.com/macbook <- video there...

Crash
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Post by Crash » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:48 pm

Hey ladies!

I posted this over at MacRumors already. Excuse the use of underlines and bolds, but some things need to be made clear and obvious for even the most lazy reader.

The FW400 port on former MBP is nothing more than an FW800->FW400 adapter, there is only one physical FW800 interface in the former MBP that comes with 2 ports. In fact the Agere chipset offers upto 3 ports internally that can be coupled with either a FW800 or FW400 connector.

To clarify that: There were no two independent FW interfaces/busses in the old MBP, but only one!

That means that when you had devices plug into both ports they were effectively daisy-chained with the MBP FW controller being nothing more than another FW device in the chain. That's what FW is all about, every device is a controller.

As a result all that all you are losing with the new MBP's is a convinient inbuild FW800->FW400 adapter!

Surely a nice TI FW400 port would have been alot more convinient, but obviously Apple found a place to cut manufacturing costs by a couple of cents.


What does that mean in practice when connecting Firewire devices to a MBP?

Just like before you should make sure that all FW400 and FW800 devices are clouded together with other devices of the same speed and apart from devices of lower speed. Connect all your FW800 devices directly into the MBP FW800 port and put all FW400 devices behind your last FW800 device.

Granted, you are dependent on the quality of your FW800 gear's own FW controller. But given the issues happening with professional FW Audio interfaces being connected to the FW400 port of last years Agere chipset that might not even be a bad thing. FW is a well defined protocol and most external gear should deliver.

To all you Audio professionals out there: If putting a FW Audio interface and a FW harddrive together results in worse low latency performance consider buying a FW or even better eSATA ExpressCard for your harddrive.

Thanks for listening! ;) :D

chrisedmo
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Post by chrisedmo » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:02 pm

Rave wrote:Not everyone wants a MBP. The MBs are good enough for the job but not now :(
+1
Macbook 1.83ghz. Ableton Live 8 :-). Guitars and keys and retro sh*t.
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noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:11 pm

Crash wrote:Surely a nice TI FW400 port would have been alot more convinient, but obviously Apple found a place to cut manufacturing costs by a couple of cents.
If it's an extra chip and an extra few analogue components near teh port, more power running through the motherboard and an extra hole in the case, I'd say it's easily a few hundred times that. It would wouldn't break the bank but it's not as simple as you make it out...

Crash
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Post by Crash » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:20 pm

noisetonepause wrote:If it's an extra chip and an extra few analogue components near teh port, more power running through the motherboard and an extra hole in the case, I'd say it's easily a few hundred times that. It would wouldn't break the bank but it's not as simple as you make it out...
No extra chip but an extra connector that has to be wired to the one-chip solution (one reason they went with Agere/LSI last year was the highly integrated, small and cheap one-chip solution Agere offers).

Anyway, customers pay premium for MBPs, guess they can afford to buy a simple FW800->FW400 cable.

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:32 pm

Crash wrote:No extra chip but an extra connector that has to be wired to the one-chip solution (one reason they went with Agere/LSI last year was the highly integrated, small and cheap one-chip solution Agere offers).
Does the new NVIDIA chipset have Firewire?

thelike5
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Post by thelike5 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:08 am

Rave wrote:Not everyone wants a MBP. The MBs are good enough for the job but not now :(
Exactly. Nor can a lot of people afford one. When you are trying to convert the millions of PC users out there it's really not a good idea to start taking connectivity options away from people. When a person who spends $599 on a notebook from the big chain stores (frankly, with more on board ram and usually a stronger processor) the old dialogue about the operating system being better (which current users all know is) is going to be a tougher sell, especially in these tough economic times.

Getting someone to go from $599 to $1299 is hard as it is... getting them to go from $599 to $1,999 is going to take more than an oversaturated marketing campaign.

At least Apple nailed it with that new ipod touch... otherwise, between those ugly new nanos, the failed macbook air and don't even get me started on Apple TV I can see a chink in the proverbial armor.

jonny72
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Post by jonny72 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:20 am

I think the biggest problem is that after Apple said their margins would be substantially reduced, everyone thought we'd be seeing cheaper products - especially laptops. Instead we get new more expensive laptops and a price drop on the plastic MacBook that is an insult (and a price increase in the UK and other countries). Everyone was expecting a product launch that would leave the opposition trembling, instead they're just pissing themselves laughing.

Not sure any of it will dent sales though. People always seem to have money for beer and over priced flash looking products made by Apple.

Though I really can't figure out how they can justify the new £719 price for the plastic MacBook. Compare it to other leading brands and its at least £200 over priced and there's nothing too special about it.

MFaulkner
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Post by MFaulkner » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:43 am

So can you only get the reflective screen with the MBP? If so that is awful!

Crash
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Post by Crash » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:49 am

noisetonepause wrote:Does the new NVIDIA chipset have Firewire?
I doubt that. What I meant was, it doesn't matter wether you put one, two or three FW ports on a computer, in all cases you need one FW chip (the ports are only daisy chained on one FW bus anyway).

ground_control
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Post by ground_control » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:53 am

jonny72 wrote:I think the biggest problem is that after Apple said their margins would be substantially reduced, everyone thought we'd be seeing cheaper products - especially laptops. Instead we get new more expensive laptops and a price drop on the plastic MacBook that is an insult (and a price increase in the UK and other countries). Everyone was expecting a product launch that would leave the opposition trembling, instead they're just pissing themselves laughing.

Not sure any of it will dent sales though. People always seem to have money for beer and over priced flash looking products made by Apple.

Though I really can't figure out how they can justify the new £719 price for the plastic MacBook. Compare it to other leading brands and its at least £200 over priced and there's nothing too special about it.
Umm...I just watched a whole video where they went into great detail about how the new macbook is made of...aluminum.

sparklepuff
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Post by sparklepuff » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:25 am

ground_control wrote:
jonny72 wrote:I think the biggest problem is that after Apple said their margins would be substantially reduced, everyone thought we'd be seeing cheaper products - especially laptops. Instead we get new more expensive laptops and a price drop on the plastic MacBook that is an insult (and a price increase in the UK and other countries). Everyone was expecting a product launch that would leave the opposition trembling, instead they're just pissing themselves laughing.

Not sure any of it will dent sales though. People always seem to have money for beer and over priced flash looking products made by Apple.

Though I really can't figure out how they can justify the new £719 price for the plastic MacBook. Compare it to other leading brands and its at least £200 over priced and there's nothing too special about it.
Umm...I just watched a whole video where they went into great detail about how the new macbook is made of...aluminum.
They are still selling the plastic MacBook, and it is 719 pounds.
Guitar | Synths | Samplers | Ableton @ Phantogram & Big Grams

theque
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Post by theque » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:26 am

i be well happy i got a black one a month ago, no firewire wtf?

ground_control
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Post by ground_control » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:46 am

sparklepuff wrote:
ground_control wrote:
jonny72 wrote:I think the biggest problem is that after Apple said their margins would be substantially reduced, everyone thought we'd be seeing cheaper products - especially laptops. Instead we get new more expensive laptops and a price drop on the plastic MacBook that is an insult (and a price increase in the UK and other countries). Everyone was expecting a product launch that would leave the opposition trembling, instead they're just pissing themselves laughing.

Not sure any of it will dent sales though. People always seem to have money for beer and over priced flash looking products made by Apple.

Though I really can't figure out how they can justify the new £719 price for the plastic MacBook. Compare it to other leading brands and its at least £200 over priced and there's nothing too special about it.
Umm...I just watched a whole video where they went into great detail about how the new macbook is made of...aluminum.
They are still selling the plastic MacBook, and it is 719 pounds.
Ah

reptar
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Post by reptar » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:46 am

It would be good if they could use the optical audio IO for ADAT, not just S/PDIF. I guess upgrading the driver to a more 'pro' standard isn't gonna happen though.

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