Piano Roll: How to split a note in half or anwhere along it

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:22 am

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:The way the length of Notes work is based on the grid size. so shrink the grid size with ctrl+1 then drag the note shorter...also, Ctrl + 2 to increase grid.
an easy way to work is to keep the grid size real small and drag the note sizes around. Im a wierdo, i much prefer this method to a scissors tool.
Logic does both. It's a shortcoming of Live, along with no glue, volume, event editor etc.
Again, Im glad there are no scissors or glue or paint buckets or gradient tools or whatever... Old paradigms that hopefully will die soon. Im not saying the Live way is the best way, but there are way better possible quick workflow solutions that could be implemented...
I'll never understand why people like you actively seek to prevent features in Live?

Like I said Logic has always worked like that, the size of the grid determines your editing with the arrow, and the zooming in Logic is far better than Live. Logic also uses other tools besides this to edit MIDI. That Live doesn't have them is not a feature, it's a lack, whether you prefer a feature that's fairly common in other DAWs to other features other DAWs have that Live has no comparable feature set of is just your preference, not any indication of the uselessness of the features.

I don't get this at all? say you want to split MIDI notes for various reasons... well in Live it takes you at least two more steps to do the exact same thing that you can do in Cubase, Performer, Logic etc. That's not progress, that's not a better paradigm.

Honestly, and this isn't directed at you, but it's frustrating to love Live for the things it gets right, but deal with people accepting halfway implemented features or lack of them, and have people on these forums decry other DAWs, even for features that are obviously more useful etc.

The dumbing down of Live is my least favorite part of the whole aesthetic. Lack of features does not translate to faster workflow, especially for experiences users. It's why most "pros" use more than just Live.

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:30 am

he's not saying it doesn't need something, he's just saying that it needs something other than a tool bucket, something better
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

deva
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Post by deva » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:36 am

until someone comes up with the something better, I'll take the tool bucket

Michael Hatsis
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Post by Michael Hatsis » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:06 am

Machinesworking wrote:
mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:
Machinesworking wrote: Logic does both. It's a shortcoming of Live, along with no glue, volume, event editor etc.
Again, Im glad there are no scissors or glue or paint buckets or gradient tools or whatever... Old paradigms that hopefully will die soon. Im not saying the Live way is the best way, but there are way better possible quick workflow solutions that could be implemented...
I'll never understand why people like you actively seek to prevent features in Live?

Like I said Logic has always worked like that, the size of the grid determines your editing with the arrow, and the zooming in Logic is far better than Live. Logic also uses other tools besides this to edit MIDI. That Live doesn't have them is not a feature, it's a lack, whether you prefer a feature that's fairly common in other DAWs to other features other DAWs have that Live has no comparable feature set of is just your preference, not any indication of the uselessness of the features.

I don't get this at all? say you want to split MIDI notes for various reasons... well in Live it takes you at least two more steps to do the exact same thing that you can do in Cubase, Performer, Logic etc. That's not progress, that's not a better paradigm.

Honestly, and this isn't directed at you, but it's frustrating to love Live for the things it gets right, but deal with people accepting halfway implemented features or lack of them, and have people on these forums decry other DAWs, even for features that are obviously more useful etc.

The dumbing down of Live is my least favorite part of the whole aesthetic. Lack of features does not translate to faster workflow, especially for experiences users. It's why most "pros" use more than just Live.
Im not actively seeking out anything bud, read my post again...

snakedogman
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Post by snakedogman » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:10 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:he's not saying it doesn't need something, he's just saying that it needs something other than a tool bucket, something better
but he never made it clear what was wrong with having a tool bucket/menu/popup in the first place.
If they can come up with something better, great, but until then why not use what works?

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:29 pm

snakedogman wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:he's not saying it doesn't need something, he's just saying that it needs something other than a tool bucket, something better
but he never made it clear what was wrong with having a tool bucket/menu/popup in the first place.
If they can come up with something better, great, but until then why not use what works?
Exactly! expecting that Ableton will find a 'new' paradigm, when they haven't for the last four freaking years? waiting on some golden promise that Live will do something better when there's nothing even offered up by anybody? well, I suppose you guys know what I think of that.

I really have no idea why people think a few new tools are a bad thing?

jlgrimes
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Post by jlgrimes » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:12 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:he's not saying it doesn't need something, he's just saying that it needs something other than a tool bucket, something better
What would be better than an editing tool for dividing a note into multiple segments for that particular task?

I could think of a different alternative but I don't really think it is better, but depending on the situation it could be.

But I think Live could use a few more midi editing tools. And a few more tools don't have to always add more clutter to the interface. All they need is a function that enables as a keyboard shortcut to keep the feature hidden from users who don't like cluttered interfaces.

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:06 pm

jlgrimes wrote: All they need is a function that enables as a keyboard shortcut to keep the feature hidden from users who don't like cluttered interfaces.
Exactly! features that are activated if you so desire. I have no problem with Live's lack of buttons and such with nasty little icons on them cluttering the view, keep that stuff in key commands and the menu! Make it intuitive to use the basics, and customizable for more advanced features.

For instance in Logic I set up the floating toolbox to open with a mouse click, invisible otherwise. One of the reasons I wasn't impressed with Logic 8 is the intrusion of permanent bars with tabs and buttons. :evil:

Michael Hatsis
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Post by Michael Hatsis » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:21 am

Machinesworking wrote:
snakedogman wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:he's not saying it doesn't need something, he's just saying that it needs something other than a tool bucket, something better
but he never made it clear what was wrong with having a tool bucket/menu/popup in the first place.
If they can come up with something better, great, but until then why not use what works?
Exactly! expecting that Ableton will find a 'new' paradigm, when they haven't for the last four freaking years? waiting on some golden promise that Live will do something better when there's nothing even offered up by anybody? well, I suppose you guys know what I think of that.

I really have no idea why people think a few new tools are a bad thing?

sorry for the delay in reply. for me, something as simple as a double-clicking or alt+clicking the waveform where you want it to be split would suffice as a replacement for scissors/glue tool. Also, possibly a button mapped to MIDI or Key that when hit will split the waveform in the place that the mouse is over.

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:54 am

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
snakedogman wrote: but he never made it clear what was wrong with having a tool bucket/menu/popup in the first place.
If they can come up with something better, great, but until then why not use what works?
Exactly! expecting that Ableton will find a 'new' paradigm, when they haven't for the last four freaking years? waiting on some golden promise that Live will do something better when there's nothing even offered up by anybody? well, I suppose you guys know what I think of that.

I really have no idea why people think a few new tools are a bad thing?

sorry for the delay in reply. for me, something as simple as a double-clicking or alt+clicking the waveform where you want it to be split would suffice as a replacement for scissors/glue tool. Also, possibly a button mapped to MIDI or Key that when hit will split the waveform in the place that the mouse is over.
We just don't have at all similar workflows. One thing about Live that I don't like is that some of it's tools etc. have to be mapped manually to MIDI or a key. There's no macro keyboard shortcut set that you can create so in order to use the same set you must start from a template that you created, and you have to have solidified it before you write your songs.... So in my case for instance some songs have the template key commands, and others do not...... a simple macro set would eliminate this hassle.
Alt clicking might work, but it's still kludgy IMO compared to setting a mouse button to a toolset. Lives Alt click menu is already pretty big if you haven't noticed. :wink:

snakedogman
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Post by snakedogman » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:24 pm

more keyboard shortcuts (and user-configurable) would be great. And please stop making everything ctrl/alt/shift/ combinations when one key would suffice!
I don't want to have to use both fucking hands for my keyboard shortcuts PLEASE :P

ckluxen
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Re: Piano Roll: How to split a note in half or anwhere along it

Post by ckluxen » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:43 am

ClyphX

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