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Would you use Ableton-Linux?
Yes! Ableton-Linux would be nice :) 84%  84%  [ 166 ]
No, I'm a windows noob -.- 16%  16%  [ 31 ]
Total votes : 197
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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:13 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 pm
Posts: 17
Open letter to Ableton;

Open letter to Ableton;

I was very annoyed about Ableton / Linux support, so I decided to come here and complain and I found a thread — of course!

If an application supports Windows and Mac, supporting Linux is not much work. Somehow, there are very many products that work on all 3 platforms. If you only supported Windows, you would be in much worse shape. I’ll bet a sandwich Ableton doesn’t have even have one person working on Linux. 3-5 could have a solid native port in a few months.

The Linux audio stack is getting mature now. What is required now is a realization by you that your customers want Linux support. Note, the WINE support for Ableton Live is getting solid today, but it does have problems. On the latest Ubuntu, it installs and runs, which is a big milestone, but it has some perf glitches (some things are very slow), and the audio doesn’t work. With Ableton supporting Linux directly, or via Wine, ideally both, these problems could easily and quickly get fixed.

A free / GPL Ableton would be very nice, but the proprietary version of Ableton on Linux enables users to run a free OS, which is even better. Not supporting Linux is damaging to the freedom of Ableton’s customers. Microsoft continues to win because of the lack of vision or laziness of others.

I don’t recommend rioting in the streets, but I do encourage customers to loudly remind every software vendor that the freedom to choose your own OS is very important, and companies should respect their customers’ hardware and software preferences.

You might think it isn’t worth it to build a Linux version today, but how can you know the demand of a product you don’t have? Linux marketshare is growing every year and studies show that worldwide usage is comparable to the Macintosh today. It is true that not much music-making is done on Linux now, but that is partially your fault! Are you waiting for Linux to be dominant in music-making before you enter the market? Any businessman will tell you that is exactly backwards.

People may not use a product if it doesn’t run on all platforms: PDF, Flash, Firefox, Wikipedia, etc., etc. are popular because they work on all platforms. Not having a Linux version puts the entire company at risk.

I know you are busy, but that you can afford it. It is not a matter of development being at capacity (as if people ever sit around), it is a matter of prioritizing. When you say you don’t have the resources, you just are saying it doesn’t seem important yet. You actually could make a major shift in priorities quickly if you wanted to. Requirements often show up up mid-way through every development cycle that need to be incorporated, and it gets done. Ableton says that they aren’t going to support Linux because they can’t be “all things to all people”. That is equating one feature with all features.

You either embrace the future or your competitors do it for you. I don’t care who builds it, but music-making software is one of the top challenges for the Linux desktop. Many people run 1 or 2 proprietary apps on Linux. Several of Ableton’s employees are long-time users of Debian Linux. It is sad that Linux has so many users who are not supporters. Supporting Linux can mean many things, I just ask you to start with creating a version of Ableton that runs on at least Debian. If you feel very busy, I can recommend moving away from C++ towards 99% Python. That will help help speed the Linux port and every other feature.

Regards,

-Keith
http://keithcu.com/SoftwareWars/.

P.S. Here is a quote:

Quote:
Sometimes the real hurdle to renewal is not a lack of options, but a lack of flexibility in resource allocation. All too often, legacy projects get richly funded year after year while new initiatives go begging. This, more than anything, is why companies regularly forfeit the future -- they over invest in “what is” at the expense of “what could be.”

New projects are deemed “untested”, “risky”, or a “diversion of resources.” Thus while senior execs may happily fund a billion-dollar acquisition, someone a few levels down who attempts to “borrow” a half-dozen talented individuals for a new project, or carve a few thousand dollars out of a legacy budget, is likely to find the task on par with a dental extraction.

The resource allocation model is typically biased against new ideas, since it demands a level of certainty about volumes, costs, timelines, and profits that simply can't be satisfied when an ideal is truly novel. While it's easy to predict the returns on a project that is a linear extension of an existing business, the payback on an unconventional idea will be harder to calculate.

Managers running established businesses seldom have to defend the strategic risk they take when they pour good money into a slowly decaying business model, or overfund an activity that is already producing diminishing returns.

How do you accelerate the redeployment of resources from legacy programs to future-focused initiatives?

—Gary Hamel, The Future of Management


Last edited by KeithCu on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:14 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 pm
Posts: 17
deleted...


Last edited by KeithCu on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12591
Not gonna happen, general market OS penetration

Windows XP (41.70%)
Windows 7 (25.42%)
Windows Vista (15.43%)
Mac OS X (6.92%)
iOS (iPhone) (2.05%)
Linux (1.64%)

Can I use my Komplete 6 in Linux?
Can I use my extensive collection of VSTs?
How about the mac users, do they get to keep using all those AU that came with Logic?

nope

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm
Posts: 2404
^^^

<sarcasm> That explains why there are so few apps for the iphone then </sarcasm>

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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12591
no,
it just means that the Linux app is slated for release shortly after Ableton iOS iLive edition
</irony>


iOS has a very small market share but the capitalisation is fucking incredible. Linux is a market populated by bearded cheapskates, while the iOS world is one of spend-happy latte-sippers. I know which one I would develop for.

It's all very well to post a poll with a completely loaded question, but it won't achieve anything. Ableton will only make a version if there is a market for it, they aren't a charity.
What is the biggest Linux DAW, how many users does it have?
That is the cash pool they have toward development of this potential edition.


How many Live users would actually pay to use a Linux version considering the crucial proviso that it would not run all their expensive Waves/NI/Apple/etc plugins.

123 ?

There are a few people who think they'd want one, but would never really use it once they realised Massive doesn't load.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 pm
Posts: 17
The hard part about an Ableton for iPhone is shrinking the UI down. With Linux, the problem is making little coding / build changes.

Linux would get more hip if the hip apps worked on it. And it is evolving nicely. Now is a good time to get in, even if it still "feels" early as it will take a while to get the Ableton product mature. The question is not when you would finish, but when you should start.

It is possible to get the Windows plugins working on Linux. For example, WINE could be helpful to that.

Ableton should not tell customers they can't run Linux.

-Keith


Last edited by KeithCu on Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm
Posts: 2404
What I'd really like to see on Linux is a really good open source DAW with comparable features and work flow to commercial ones. Most of the code you would need to get started is already available - e.g PD and Audacity, etc. Sooner or later this stuff will come good.

"Google Performer" anyone?

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(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)


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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 pm
Posts: 17
Eventually a FOSS DAW will happen. But in the meanwhile, Ableton can make money licensing a Linux version of their product.


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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:23 pm 

Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 11:26 am
Posts: 5
Have an idea to make OS LIVE specifically for Ableton 's. Based on Linux. Following the example of Google OS or OS Muse Research Receptor. System oriented; for realtime musical processes.
I'm tired of windows and macos tune for the music to remove the cloud of unnecessary software! I think this could be a success, I know 3 people who would buy it)


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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:37 pm 

Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 4:55 pm
Posts: 24
I think so, you should do , if not supported in Linux upgrade it so that it supports


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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:45 am
Posts: 165
If you want to see Ableton running on a few Linux distros, point your browser here
http://www.southseascave.com/?p=41


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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:08 pm
Posts: 2
yes. Obviously the current steam version of Left 4 Dead benchmarks at about 10% faster at opengl than windows!!
Ableton works with wine but no export, have to do a trick with audacity and outputting the sound.
I would def pay for a LInux version of Ableton. I would never pay for a windows version or mac os version (Even though its unix)
due to Apple and Microsoft acting shady. BTW I gave Ableton the idea for a VST wrapper implemented in Ableotn 8.3 they
never thanked me or gave me a job, sounds like they might be a shady german company. They better respect the Europeans like Linus
and myself , therefore releasing a linux binary. Preferrably x64 atleast, damn fucking newbs. I trolled em so hard in my email that
they actually added a VST Wrapper to Ableton.


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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:11 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:34 am
Posts: 18
Bump for Ableton on Linux.
that would be great.


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 Post subject: Re: Should Ableton have support for linux??
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:44 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:06 am
Posts: 394
Bitwig has officially announced Linux support. I hope this becomes a trend.


Hey Ableton, your newest competitor has Linux support!

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